K2 Spice associated with death of young Indiana mother of two

Welcome to readers arriving via Adam Brown’s referral from Cracked.com. I’ve since moved my blog where I have written extensively on the fake weed phenomenon over the last year-and-a-half.

Click here to read my compilation of synthetic marijuana posts at the new home of this blog.
 


 

From the overnight e-mail referrals of PharmGirl, MD, whose insomnia fuels much of my blogging, comes a story from Middletown, Indiana, on the death of a 28-year-old woman from smoking a synthetic marijuana product.

From WXIN-TV in Indianapolis:

A mother of two is dead after using a synthetic-marijuana laced incense known as “Spice.”

Now her friends and family want the drug outlawed since more and more people appear to be dying from it.

“Yesterday I lost one of the most important people in my life,” says Heather Hogan, blinking back tears, still trying to make sense of a life taken so suddenly.

A common brand of "herbal incense" or "synthetic marijuana."

Several “herbal incense” products sold as K2 or Spice (usually Spice Gold) have permeated the media over the last year, in the US at least, as legal alternatives to marijuana. These products contain one or more synthetic chemicals designed to bind the same cannabinoid receptors in the brain as those affected by the active compounds in marijuana.  These synthetic compounds, called cannabimimetics, do not have the same chemical structure as marijuana’s THC but still have equal or greater potency and effectiveness. Most recognized among these chemicals is JWH-018, so named by the research team of Clemson University professor emeritus, John W. Huffman, who worked on these molecules as biological probes in the mid-1990s together with some of the best behavioral pharmacologists in the US.

For more reading, go to these posts by us, DrugMonkey, and Dr. Leigh.

However, if these compounds do indeed behave like those in marijuana, deaths associated with their use might not be expected.  However, there is at least one other Indiana death from May that is associated with Spice use. Unlike the current article, the May case has a statement from the coroner:

“Given that it was reported that the decedent may have used an unknown substance call “K 12 spice”, a synthetic drug being used by some smokers as a legal substitute to marijuana, we will review the toxicology results to determine what chemicals are involved. We know that there are current studies being done to determine the effects of this substance. We will follow this case closely and watch for other related types of unexpected deaths.”

The coroner probably meant K2, not K12. But regardless, could this stuff cause death?

DrugMonkey, Leigh, and I have been monitoring the literature and our comment threads but most of what we see are from users who report, at worst, some very unpleasant experiences with K2 or Spice use.  However, a couple of our commenters have noted that the products can cause seizures. And if severe enough, a seizure can cause death. (P.S. Leigh has started writing a new blog at Scientopia.org called Neurodynamics.)

This particular commenter of ours who purchased pure JWH-018 to make his own herbal blend reports that while one cannot usually overdose on marijuana, high doses of this compound are very different. Other habitual marijuana users report that some high-dose effects of K2 Spice reported sound similar to those of very strong strains of cannabis.

More and more of these kinds of products are popping up under other names such as Colorado Chronic, Dragon Spice, HUSH, and others.

So, what’s the story here? Let’s assume for a moment that these deaths can be causally linked to synthetic marijuana use.

Could lethal effects of K2 Spice be due to a synthetic contaminant?

My hypothesis is driven by pharmacology/toxicology history. In the early 1980s, young people started showing up in San Francisco hospitals with symptoms of shaking and muscle rigidity that looked just like Parkinson’s disease that usually afflicts folks in the 60s or, in the early-onset version, their 40s. The cases were traced back to an East Coast chemistry graduate student who had been trying to synthesize MPPP an analog of the synthetic opioid drug, meperidine, to prepare a “synthetic heroin.”

In this 1983 Science paper, J William Langston and other colleagues at Stanford identified the presence and activity of a neurotoxic by-product of illicit MPPP syntheses called MPTP. Langston’s group reviewed that case of the Maryland chemistry graduate student who had presented with similar symptoms in 1976 while using this 1947 synthetic scheme, part of a series of four piperidine synthesis papers in that issue of the Journal of Organic Chemistry. Davis et al. reported on this case in 1979 in Psychiatry Research that the student noted the onset of parkinsonian side effects when injecting the compound made after taking some synthetic shortcuts following several successful batches. The student, now known as Barry Kidston, died after a cocaine overdose and his brain slices are those shown in the Davis paper.

Langston’s group later reported in Neuroscience Letters that MPTP is metabolized in the brain of non-human primates to the highly-reactive neurotoxin, MPP+ (interestingly, an equally high ratio of MPP+ to MPTP was observed in the heart but I’ve not read anything about cardiac effects of MPTP). I should also note that the use of non-human primates for this work was critical to understanding how this toxin caused parkinsonism – the effects were not seen in rats given MPTP.

Production of this highly-reactive pyridinium ion was later shown to result form neuronal metabolism by monoamine oxidase B, the same enzyme we normally use to inactivate dopamine. The MPP+ caused selective death of dopamine neurons in the substantia nigra, “comparable in severity to that usually seen in idiopathic parkinsonism.” (Quote from Langston et al, Science 1983; 219:979-80 about Kidston’s pathology)

For more reading on this topic, Langston co-authored a 1995 book entitled, The Case of the Frozen Addicts, that also fueled a NOVA special. A New England Journal of Medicine review of the book appears here.

MPPP, the intended illicit compound, and MPTP, the proneurotoxin that is oxidized in the brain to MPP+.

This remains an active area of research today because environmental causes of parkinsonism may be mediated similar by compounds we encounter daily – in the 1980s, Sol Snyder’s group at Hopkins showed that MPP+ is made in and exported from astrocytes to kill surrounding neurons and just last year another group at Rochester and Columbia showed that identified an organic cation transport protein, oct3, that’s responsible for this export.

In the case of JWH-018 and related compounds, they are not piperidine (a six-membered saturated ring containing nitrogen) but rather indoles, a five-membered nitrogen-containing ring connected to a benzyl ring. Both are heterocycles, meaning they are carbon rings with nitrogen and, like the methyl on the pyridine nitrogen in MPTP, the nitrogen in JWH-018 is modified with an aliphatic group (a five-carbon pentyl group, in this case).

The cannabimimetic, JWH-018, sold pure and in K2, Spice, and other "synthetic marijuana" or "herbal incense" products.

My question to my chemistry colleagues is whether something could happen in the JWH-018 synthesis to create a situation on the indole that could allow this to be activated to a reactive cation. I’m not sure how the carbonyl electrons one carbon off from the indole might influence things. But then again, we have indoles everywhere endogenously – in tryptophan and serotonin.

Just thinking out loud here – although I’m happy to partner with one of my chemistry colleagues to suss this out – but the cases of deaths reported with K2 Spice, if causally associated, seem too sporadic to be a general theme. The fact that these two cases (and perhaps three) in Indiana smells to me like a locally-restricted distribution of a “bad batch.” I anticipate that poison control centers and forensic analytical chemists in Indiana are on the case.

But here’s a case where I really wish I knew chemistry better. But, in true blog tradition, I’d rather open up this discussion to chemists of the blogosphere rather than try and be all secretive and see if this hypothesis can be quietly tested with my colleagues.

I see that some of my chemist friends have followed me over here from the old digs at ScienceBlogs – what say you, o learned ones?

171 thoughts on “K2 Spice associated with death of young Indiana mother of two

  1. You and DrugMonkey are definitely the go-to guys when it comes to this business of cannabimimetics. I need to blog about this, but I am tempted to just post a set of links to back posts from Terra Sigillata and DM.

      • All the loose allegations …little documentation… about these herbal incense blends seem to belong in the category of “WMD’s” as far as substance. I got curious and looked around some more. One YouTube video sporting a rather odd, government agent-y looking young man with an Arlo Guthrie-type hat with a greasy-looking blond wig underneath, and a live snake on his arm …lol. This guy looks like an undercover officer to me (grin). He intones, “There have been 125 emergency room entries related to smoking herbal incense and two deaths in the US ALONE”..but he fails to give timeframe…in a month? 6 months? a year? two ? who knows. Far too many of these videos and articles are without resource links.

        But the snake guy…lol…so bogus…

        I googled the 2 deaths mentioned. Apparently both occurred in Indiana. Again a vague and undocumented summary, “could possibly be related to herbal incense…”; another indirect attribution to the Marion County coroner (who actually is paid to determine the FACTS not allegations) This type WMD reporting just doesn’t hold water.

        That ALL this incense is “Made in China or Korea” is just what is alleged and those names introduce fear and aversion factors into the mix. But if there’s money to be made–and there is–, I’d say lots of locals have their hands in it. Just as another commenter said, those Indiana deaths might have been linked exclusively to a local experiment, a bad batch.

        As far as 125 visits to a hospital emergency room due to incense smoking, well, those numbers are just a tiny blip on the radar of ER work.
        Alcohol is linked to all manner of violent deaths, emergency admissions, crimes, etc., as we all know perfectly well.
        But even more telling are the following statistics from a gov source,
        http://oas.samhsa.gov/2k10/DAWN034/EDHighlights.cfm

        ” ED (Emergency department) visits involving misuse or abuse of pharmaceuticals increased 98.4 percent between 2004 and 2009, from 627,291 visits in 2004 to 1,244,679 visits in 2009.”

        (I found the following even more interesting)

        “ED VISITS INVOLVING ADVERSE REACTIONS TO PHARMACEUTICALS TAKEN AS PRESCRIBED INCREASED 82.9 percent between 2005 and 2009, from 1,250,377 visits in 2005 to 2,287,273 visits in 2009.”
        (emphasis mine)

        125 ER visits vs TWO MILLION, TWO HUNDRED EIGHTY-SEVEN THOUSAND, TWO HUNDRED AND SEVENTY-THREE?

        Where is the equivalent public hue and cry over these amazing statistics of legal drug usage (endorsed as safe) by the FDA??

        “106,000-200,000 people die per year from adverse reaction to prescribed drugs.” http://www.naturalnews.com/009278.html

        With all the class action suits, that number seems a tad low to me. Not to mention personal experience as a caregiver to my elderly mother who has had NUMEROUS adverse reactions to drugs prescribed for her, AND which I had to DEMAND they be discontinued before the doctors would prescribe and alternative. (They were new, very EXPENSIVE drugs) I didn’t report those experiences to the FDA, but I think I will now, after reading the FDA only “heard of” 82 out of 28 THOUSAND adverse reaction cases involving a popular heart medication.
        People just don’t think of reporting to the FDA.
        A SIGN ENCOURAGING THIS PRACTICE SHOULD BE IN EVERY HOSPITAL AND DOCTOR’S OFFICE IN AMERICA.

        Moreover,
        “8.4 million adults aged 18 or older (3.7 percent of the adult population) had thought seriously about committing suicide in the past year.”
        (Ibid)

        Obviously Americans need some sort of stress release….

        I’ve seen a fw videos of people saying K2 or Blueberry-something-or-other or Spice rendered them senseless and drooling; some said they were terrified of the buzz, they were so high, blah, blah…

        I’ve tried several forms of it in moderation. Interesting variety of highs ranging from barely there to “whoa, wasn’t expecting that”, large and small buzzes here and there, few lasting longer than 10-15 minutes, during which I was totally functional.

        A few REALLY high minutes in one instance but nothing I couldn’t handle if I decided to pull back from the high. Only one time was a brief very brief- Thai-stick kind of high, and I never had that reaction repeated.

        Some gave me nothing at all except a slightly irritated throat.
        So all this hype and allegation seems vague, unsubstantiated, and in contrast to my own experience.

        Guess you just have to see for yourself.
        I don’t believe in getting too stoned, consider that a waste of weed. A couple of hits does it for me. I’m looking to relax, put things in perspective, not pass out or hallucinate..lol.
        I suppose like everything, it depends on what effect you are LOOKING for and how far you will go to find it.
        Moderation is the key.
        You know, it would be very embarrassing for the govt to just give in on the “War on Drugs”, but this could be a back alley way of letting go of that ill-conceived tax money pit: “to avoid these unknown and dangerous substances being marketed to our youth” propaganda campaign, Congress may “reluctantly” pass legislation removing the criminalization of possession of less than (X) grams….make that a fine only offense, and through legalization and regulation of outlets be able to ax our way out of this financial abyss we find ourselves in, put people to work, cut out the criminal element….hmm…..
        and the government gets to save face….

        (Just my thoughts on the subject,and I felt like writing :)

      • I couldn’t agree more. I don’t get it alcohol is legal but marijuana isn’t. When poeple smoke they get lazy and tired but most of all it puts them in a good mood. But also with k2 I have been smoking it for over a year straight and I have never had anything happen to me. So I don’t know what is going on with these other people but I am doing just fine. They really need to look more into this and find out exactly what it is. I have seen people have a bad high off of k2 but never anything I had to be scared about. Once you tells those people they are just fine and help them realize they are just fine. Well in the cases I have been in.

      • We have a new stuff “kryptoni * there’s a sticker attached, wanna know what it says.. Test batch. Just testin it out I guess…
        Hey just curious
        Would there be any reason not to swallow your spit after smoking?
        I don’t have a clue if digesting would somehow change it’s effect, even after it would already be in the bloodstream.

      • I dont know if you will receive this reply or not… but take my advice… STOP! Do not ingest this stuff. I posted my experiences in another post but Ill give you the nutshell version. I took a small pinch (and I mean small) put it under my tounge for about 15 min and I dealt with my heart racing to about 140bpm for 10 min at a time every 20 min for about 2 hrs (yes i measured it along with my blood pressure). After that, my heart stayed steady bpm but for about 5 hrs I could not sleep and I could feel my heart working harder than usual. My blood pressure stayed around 170/120 during this whole time, normally it is around 135-140/90. This stuff can KILL you! I was lucky I didnt take a big pinch of this… and for all my trouble I didnt even feel a buzz! I threw all of my stuff out, Im done with this crap.

      • i so agree with you! i smoked that crap and i thought i was gonna die and i will never smoke that crap again!! why have another man made drug out there when they could just have marijuana legal.

    • The government is so pathetic they may as well be legalizing crack on the market. This drug is worse than crack, crystal meth, cocaine.etc. It’s the worst thing the government has allowed. It takes time away from the people who are hooked on this substitute for crack and I hope and pray that our one and only true loving GOD JEHOVAH steps in soon. Man is killing man. How sad that is. Where has family values gone? Up in smoke? The person/persons who came out with this drug will soon have to answer to his MAKER. It seems to me the persons responsible for this crack acting drug is one selfish individual who doesn’t care about anyone including his self. Please please get this and all drugs simular to it out of the publics reach. If there is any good at all in you. I’m a mother of a 20 year old,a four year old,and a one year old and I dont’ know what we’re going to do when this legalized crack finally kills him. It’s so so sad that the makers and distributors don’t care.

  2. I think your suggestion that there may have been a “bad batch” is notable. I looked at the synthesis for JWH-018 in the patent http://www.pat2pdf.org/patents/pat6900236.pdf and also looked at the Wiki article showing MPTP being converted to MPP+ by MAO. I don’t think there is a parallel between MPTP and JWH-018.

    Note: the caption to your figure showing MPPP and MPTP says MPTP is demethylated to form MPP+. It is not, the methyl group is retained and is critical to the establishment of the pyridinium cation. MAO oxidizes (dehydrogenates) MPTP.

    The components of JWH-018 are essentially at the oxidation level of MPP+ and possibly not susceptible to MAO. HOWEVER, with enzymes nothing is beyond the pale.

    There is the further problem that, unlike injected drugs, smoked products are subject to pyrolysis (heat-induced chemical reactions; which you know but I want to explain to the general reader). So, we are faced with a product of unknown purity and unknown composition as used.

    Joe

    • I read this entire forum, and I wish Joe here was still around. At least someone decently intellectual gives their input, even though there’s probably a million other things he could busy with. : ), I just wish I knew more about chemistry.

  3. Hmm. It’s worth noting that this didn’t happen in the UK.

    Our analogue cannabinoid ban last December was thanks to “potential harms”. :^/

    Must have been a bad batch over there. All the more reason to control and regulate supply.

  4. The side effect profile is very likely due to an impurity. I can’t really speculate on where this batch was made but I doubt it was under strict GMP conditions. In any case, it might be an incidental chemical that is the cause of the toxicity – say, the bromide that alkylates the nitrogen? Of course, a minor by-product from one of these reactions is also a possibility.

    The other point also made in the article was about the strength. I have heard a report (via Prof Huffman himself) about someone who was given some of one of these products and was high for a week. They are quite potent and it is difficult for the users to gauge how much they are getting.

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  6. JJM/Joe, yes, I made a mistake on the comparison between MPTP and MPPP – they differ in the presence of that ester.

    And, indeed, the pyrolysis and potential for reactions with other components of the herbal incense mix (which appear to vary from product to product) makes for a real chemical detective case.

  7. I’ve been smoking various brands of synthetic marijuana for about 3 months now.And 5 other of my friends have tried it.The worst thing any of us can say is,a cpl of us have experienced a unpleasant moment of paranoia,not unlike we’ve experienced w/ high grade marijuana.We learned quickly that only a very small dosage is needed.
    I think, that some of these people are smoking too high of doses and/or combining it w/ other drugs.I KNOW thats true at least in some cases.This would be like me chugging a 1/5 of 190 proof Everclear,getting alcohol poisoning,then blaming the alcohol for MY irresponsible actions!?My understanding is that the woman who died,had had back surgery the week before and was on pretty strong meds,then went well beyond a cpl tokes??

    • I smoked a bowl of King Krypto Extreme one day, and tripped balls. worse then i did on LCD,However today i smoked it again, same amount and it felt like a regular synthetic high. You gotta be careful

    • I can agree to your post. I have tried the Blue Bliss Colorado Chronic and the effects were quite enjoyable the first time I smoked it but noticed that a tolerance was quickly developed after smoking more and more. After increase the dosage, I have noticed that CC mimiced THC almost to the tee which left me with metal cloudiness, increase in hunger, euphoria, a nice body high and a mild cottonmouth. Since I have read in many sources that this JWH-018 compound is more potent that THC, perhaps a smaller dosage is necessary to achieve the desired effects instead of smoking it like it is weed (continuous bowls throughout the day.

    • Thats not really the point is it…if she had been smoking the real thing she would have never died! Whats with this country? They force people to ingest toxic chemicals to stay LEGAL just to die when the real thing is much LESS dangerous. Has anyone ever heard of anyone dieing of smoking weed? NOT ME! Here we are ecucating ourselves on a harmful chemical and yet the government cant educate themselves on the benefits to the public by getting this stuff off the street and legalizing the real thing.

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  9. I have recently tried JWH 018 after trying K2 and being impressed. It is subjectively very much like strong THC, slightly shorter effect. It also seems very safe, which I’d expect of a cannabinoid agonist. (Driving up my dose, I see no toxic effects, plateaued mental effects.) Compare brandy to wine.

    Impressed that its taken me this long to discover it (Spice in 2002 I read) since I used to follow psychopharm religiously; impressed that it has so little bad press in that time.

    FWIW I smoke cannabis legally in Calif.

      • i personally have smoked marijuana illegally in florida for over 12 years as treatment for ADHD. I discovered jwh treated herbs only recently, in the last year, but didn’t take it seriously until a few months ago. I have found it to be increasingly difficult to find a job in the current economy, and have had to give up the only medication that has effectively treated my condition without any adverse effects. The standard treatment for ADHD when I was diagnosed was amphetamines such as ritalin. Since having to give up my mary jane, I have experimented with jwh-018, 023, and a few others in varying doses as a replacement for my preferred medication. I can attest from personal experience that these compounds do not pose serious risk at the dosage level used in store bought brands. I have smoked 99.8% pure jwh-018, by it’s self, and would comfortably compare it to smoking highly potent hash. There were no adverse side effects other than being intensely high, with irregular heart rate and breathing similar to thc.

  10. Pingback: Citizens Commission on Human Rights of Florida (CCHR Florida) » Blog Archive » Would You Drink Gasoline? – Then Why Would You Smoke K2 Spice?

    • Says who? A news report? Not a toxicology expert. I’ve got to say this seems like a fluke, as k2 can be distributed in mass quantity and has no regulation on it being cut and added to. Also from past comments this mother was also on pain killers, not that pain killers can’t kill people. Lets use fact herr not whiny assumtions from a newspaper tring to make a story out of this.

      • iv tired k2 and other brands of these products…I dont think they ALONE kill but heres the thing if a product says not for your consumption and something bad happens well sorry… maybe you should look and research a bit before tring. i dont think the company is to blame just your stupidity.. you know a car will kill you right? and maybe this stuff too. then we should ban both. cant get it if you cant drive to there..so what can you do? maybe not try it…and what sucks is that yes pot is safe so why isnt it legal??? isnt this a free country????

      • i agree but they rather people smoke k2 that you can buy out of a store thats way more harmful and deadly rather then legalizing real weed its all a form of puttin a spell on all of you folks who are smoking it yea i tried k2 but i’ll NEVER try it again i’ll rather stick to the illegal shit if thats what you wanna call it cause you beast will never have me spell bound yea you get more for a lower price than you do if you were buying the real shit off the streets that ought to let u people who smoke k2 know some right there you all are now under the spell!!!! so i advise those of you who havent tried it but want to DONT and i reapeat DONT cause its not what it seems to be its more to it than that just watch what i tell you if you smoke weed then do just that the real shit that comes from the earth not any manufactered shit cause thats just what the beast want you to do so you can become sick and die so they can feede off your organs and energy BE SMART AND AWARE IF THE PACKAGE SAYS NOT FOR HUMAN CONSUMPTION THEN ITS NOT FOR YOU FOOLS TO BE SMOKING,SNORTING OR WHATEVER!!! JUST A CONCERNED CITIZEN

      • My brother started smoking this about a year ago, an amount similar to any habitual marijuana user would smoke. A couple months ago, he started having some really weird side effects but justified the continued use because the drug is addictive, addicts typically don’t like to admit when there is a problem. Three weeks ago, he watched a friend of his hit it first the first time and go into a seizure. This kid almost died. However, he still thought it was okay and continued to smoke. Last Monday, my brother finally came to terms with how bad it really is. He was not able to move his legs, couldn’t feel his arms, couldn’t speak or think clearly. He thought he was dying. All the comments about letting people do what they want, use in moderation, blah blah blah… first of all, humans simply do not know how to use/do anything in moderation. However, when a product like this is mass manufactured, everyone wants to pass their piss tests so they don’t lose their jobs, and its cheap… its not hard to understand how this can become an epidemic. It needs to be banned to keep teenagers, possibly some of your children, off of it and keep everyone alive The title of this article is enough to prove that someone should stop it… two small children have no mother because she thought it was okay to smoke this. It seems so harmless. It simply isn’t. These pushers who are encouraging the use of it should be ashamed of themselves. If you had a conscience, you wouldn’t be defending this.

      • There are too many reports of injuries and deaths related to this product to ignore the potential causal link. There is a law firm in Kentucky that is investigating the possibility of litigation against the manufacturer on behalf of those who have suffered injuries from this product. The law firm is Schachter, Hendy & Johnson. They are taking cases all over the country.

      • l00000l Of course that 48 year old man couldnt handle k2. Hes been smoking dirt weed since the 80s. Bud the fact of the matter is you just cant handle it.Ive smoked alot of k2 and i mean alot. People turn to k2 because they are unable to smoke weed due to drug tests. Your heart rate does speed up. and many people start to freak out. and that is exactly what causes your heart rate to beat faster. Ive seen this happen many times with friends and acquaintances. The sure fire way to stop this is to comfort and talk to the person having the episode. It works 100% of the time. Never fails. You have to take there mind off of there racing heart. You shouldnt just come out here and put this substance on blast just because you couldnt handle it and thought you were going to die old man l000l. Maybe you should go out and support yourself rather than buying k2 bags. hahahah

      • PLUS IT SAYS DONT SMOKE IT OR INHALE IT IN ANY WAY ON THE BAG HAHA as far as im concerned the manufacturers are safe. It’s not there fault that modern society is dumb as fuck

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  14. my 20 year old son smoked K12 3 weeks ago and had a bad trip on it. as the days went by he got worse and worse, until he ended up taking an ambulance ride to the hospital. Ive cought him doing drugs off and on for a few years so i know hes been around the block a time or two. But this K12 really did a number on him, he freaked out, he hallucinated, tripped out. hes in the hospital still today fighting to get his mind back. i grew up smoking weed myself. but K12 isnt a weed. its sythetic crap being sold to get rich off of kids who they know damn well are gonna buy it becouse the law allows it. now my son got the help he needed becouse we didnt ignore the signs and stoppped him before he hurt himself or someone else. then how many kids out there are not saved, and are getting killed becouse they freaked out on someones profit ?

    • @Colonel Mustard

      They don’t even make a K12 you fake.

      Go eat some more dunkens loser./ Maybe your a pot dealer getting screwed because JWH-XXX incense deliver better than your seedy stemmy overpriced mexican ditch weed.

      But I doubt that this sounds like a piggy wiggy or a piglet “task force cadet.” Government ops paid for with our tax dollars.

      • She probably meant K2 man, stop being an idiot.

        That K2/Spice shit is bad news. I’ve smoked it on several occasions and each time I get different high intensities. I smoked with a friend who was high for 3 days straight after taking 2 hits, and was freaked out.

        If you’re gonna smoke anything, don’t settle for cheap chemicals, specially if you don’t know what the hell’s in that shit. Smoke real marijuana… never killed anybody.

        fucking people trying to find a quick easy high…. it’s fucking sad.. ur making the assholes who sell that shit rich as fuck.

      • k2 you fucken dick weed…… your probably the kind of creap that sells drugs to all the little kids. im concerned about my kids, try to vent a little frustration and awareness and all your worried about is getting high on chemically inhanced incense. Talk about loosing. doggin people thats not a stupid as yourself ? I grew up and moved on with myself. how about yourself ? still getting high…. eh ? wonder what your kids are doin ?

      • Stop bein a dickhead, he probably is telling of the truth and there is no reason for you to freak just because the government is taking away everyones precious JWH, open your fuckin eyes man.

    • Finally someone comments with some sense. These products are very dangerous….I have smoked real weed all my life since I was about 17 I’m 48 so over 30 years,. I know what a good weed is and a strong weed buzz is like. I tried some of this Poison called ” ” I won’t put the name out there, I want to give no advertisement to this poison or have anybody buy it. You people who are smoking this crap are risking your lives. I just yesterday tried it , I took 3 hits and knew in about 2 minutes I had just poisoned myself. I tried to shake it off but I had gotten worse and worse and it is nothing like real weed buzz NOTHING like it or for that matter no other drug I’ve tried coke, acid, shrooms…After about ten minutes I knew I was going to die..I laid down my heart rate dropped from a fast pounding to a nearly flatline. As I lay there I experienced what it is like to die. I made my peace with God and knew I was a goner. My heart rate continued to drop to I’d say 1 beat every 2-3 seconds my breathing was very shallow with only a slight gasp every few minutes. I felt my arms and body sink away into the bed. My wife was downstairs I could hear her talking but knew there was nothing that could be done and did not want her to see me die. I have alway had a deep faith and belief in God and I can say what I experienced was as close to dying as you can get with out actually dying. I was not paranoid, I have smoked enough to know that I wasn’t paranoid about this or just having a bad trip this was death and I knew I was at the door. My heart rate was only a beat every 5 seconds or so. and the life was leaving me, I saw the face of my Mom in a flash of time when she was young to my older moms face when she died of cancer 15 years ago, I said “hear I come mommy” As what I believe was my final gasp of air and last view beats of my heart I said in a quiet peaceful voice Good bye to my wife and “I love You, I love you” Then I thought I want to live I called to my wife out loud and sat up she was at my side with a look of horror on her face. I was completly white and scally with black rings around my eyes. I told her everything that happened. I got lucky God gave me another chance. So if you are using this poison get off of it I can only imagine the long term effects it is causing and in time many will die from it…Smoke real weed fight to have the laws changed, they know natural God given weed is ok for you to use and has alot of medical benifits. but they don’t care about you your just a dollar sign to them and you poor people using these products and promoting them are being used by them. I can’t believe you idiots are endorsing this poison over real weed. ALL OF THESE PRODUCTS ARE POISON IN ANY AMOUNT… I GOT A SECOND CHANCE YOU MIGHT NOT.

  15. I am a teenager who has experimented with various synthetics and real drugs, mainly herbs such as K2 Black Magic or King Krypto. I share the same concern as many other people do that these synthetics are not safe. Just as people who know the effects of cigarettes but still smoke them, i know there is going to be a bad side effect from JWH but i still smoke it. Already in my state, there has been one “K2 linked death”, Im as big of a pothead as many people reading this post and even I can say stay away from it. It isn’t worth it, it undoubtably raises your heart rate and the possibility of death or injury is too great. And parents, if youre the type that “Doesnt care what your child does” you should. This is a serious matter and although it is being dealt with on the legal side, it must also be dealt with on the home side. People still smoke marijuana, they will still smoke this.

    • to rick you should worry about your children and my have your own views the problem in this country US is everyone is wanting someone else to worry about everything for them. you can make everything you want illegal then these things are not much harder to get but by the same token much worse stuff is available through underground markets. I would rather have a free world than a facist one and the difference is personal accontibility.

  16. Don’t do it…it is true, u will get jacked up. it feels similar to an acid comatose but lasts longer (2 hours) and is accompanied by vomiting and extreme confusion. U can’t move anymore than to part ur lips for the vomit. If u keep smoking this crap ull get the bad batch I am talking about and it will change ur life. I have no doubt this can and will kill people.

    • ummm… yeah I just tried this stuff for the third time 2 hours ago… the first and second time weren’t really a big deal.. simple floaty relaxed, giggle feeling… but this time I purchased a more potent package (spike diamond) and didn’t mix it with a weaker potency and I feel completely RIDICULOUS … paranoid.. and an array of other panic modeish feelings.. thinking I should get checked out feelings… I have NEVER felt this way before in my 26 years of life.. not from alcohol… and well I have never had any other synthetic or other drugs or narcotics.. and after this experience I will NEVER try it again… I seriously gathered my clothes, wallet, the “spice” package and my girlfriends stuff to prepare for a hospital/emergency room visit.. the feelings are subsiding… but it was such a weird feeling like complete loss of motor functions almost.. I paced across my apartment from bedroom to living room area for at least ten minutes trying to walk it off… at one point we stumbled on our balcony deck to get fresh air…and wow.. like… I can’t put into words the odd feeling… I am now just watching my girlfriend to make sure she is okay and sleeping well (she threw up).. because I refuse to go to sleep.. especially after feeling like this… so I am monitoring the situation and packed and ready to go if need be! whew…

      • I just felt really high on Kush Herbal Incense. No paranoia, no vomiting, no panic attacks (that’s funny because I suffer from anxiety), no loss of motor skills, no bad feelings. In fact, I felt more motivated, more alert, more observant, and I could even go to work at HP blazed on it and still do my job (server technician).

        This is exactly the same thing that happens with marijuana smokers. Some say it’s not for them and some love it. That’s just how it is. Just because some of you may have a bad experience that doesn’t mean that everyone else does or will.

        My suggestion for anyone trying JWH products is to take it slow and do not smoke as much as you would of mary jane, and please be cautious about where you get your batches because yes there are bad ones floating around. JWH is more potent that THC and the “incense” market is not regulated enough to allow for completely safe products.

      • yes i had the exact same experience smoking k2. it was called Bob Marley Kush, lol.. but yeah i have been smoking k2 regularly for about 2 months and never had a bad experience with it, until this time. i took a regular hit. u can even say it was a feeble toke because the bowl was nearly cashed. now keep in mind i had last hit the bowl an hour or so previous to me having this episode. well just after i hit the bowl i suddenly started to zone out..like i couldnt feel my body.like my body was just a vehicle for my brain(if that makes sense).. but then it it started to get really bad. my heartrate exelerated dramatically sudenly and i started to feel dizzy like i was gonna faint. i started to panic and for a while i grabbed my cell phone cause i really thought i might have 2 call an ambulance. and all my fear was compounded by the fact that i was home alone so if i did faint or somethin i was pretty much screwed. i just paced back n forth back n forth from my living room to the kitchen and to my bedroom then back cause i seriously didnt know what else to do. eventually i drank a little water and took a bite out of a cookie and i started to feel better. but yeah K2 can deffinately mess with ur heart rate.

    • I don’t know what incense you are burning, but your experiences sound more like one related to Salvia divinorum, not common Incense products, as the market has grown to know.

      If this experience is from straight incense, switch to a reputable brand.

    • For some reason I believe this 100%. Thinning of the drug using population. I have a very bad feeling about his one. Call it nothing, but I can feel it’s unhealthyness. I can’t even swallow when I smoke it cause I feel my saliva is tainted… Very odd. Why can’t we just legalize marijuana America.

  17. im on probation so this is all i smoke…i hit the gravity last nite….the bong this mornin….and smoked a blunt of it with the boyz….shit helps me mellow out…and get 2 sleep alot quicker.

    • I’m on probation for over a year now and I have smoke dozens of different types of k2 spice on a regular basis like I did with bud….it makes me feel exactly like I was smoking weed and I loved it…but now I’m forcing myself to stop, it causes bad chest pain and headaches which make me paranoid that I may have an anuerism and it has really fucked me up mentally…I get serious angry mood swings for the stupidest little things and my mind is no longer on point with everything….i smoked marjuana on a daily basis and 10times heavier than I did spice for 11 years and it never gave me these long term effects I am experiencing w spice…but who is to say all that bud I smoked hasnt caught up to me I will say I haven’t smoked bud in going on 3 years (got locked up) and I’ve been smoking spice the last year (on probation) and now I have these effects….I’m sure k2 effects every person differently all I’m sayin is be careful not to use it too often or too heavily because w my own experiences I do not believe it is a safe replacement for marijuana

  18. OK, As a representative of the Incense Industry, let me give you the REAL inside scoop outside of the rampant propaganda that is freely circulating about “Incense Hysteria” (Remember the 1938 film “Reefer Madness”? Same thing here).

    The problem is two-fold. First you have people coming out of the wood work with, what we refer to as “Basement Blend” incense. Second, of the few reputable incense brands, you have authenticity issues. In fact, we understand that almost 90% of popular incense brands that you find at local shops are counterfeit. Even K2 admits this on their website’s homepage.

    At Liberty Herbal Incense, we understand clearly that making a product for the public market is an IMMENSE Responsibility, even if it’s clearly designated “Not For Human Consumption” as our is. It requires a vast wealth of research and knowledge to know what to do, and not to do and when. It also requires a rock solid supply chain of associates that you can trust, coupled with ethical business practices.

    From a fiscal standpoint, it also requires a healthy investment in precision / food grade equipment as well as knowledgeable and attentive staffers. It’s a process laden with variables and complexities, despite several online forums where people are encouraging others to save a buck and make their own.

    All of these areas require resources that the “Basement Blends” can’t even begin to fathom.

    To combat authenticity issues, for the safety of our consumers, we have Professional and commercially acceptable control measures in place, like hidden verifiable lot numbers . Most importantly, we don’t sell our products indirectly OR online. All of our store locations have a direct relationship with our reps. To be honest, we are flat-out amazed that we have not encountered the same in the majority of our competitors.

    None of this is a plug for industry regulation, quite reverse. Our standpoint at Liberty Herbal Incense is that, you don’t need the government to be your Daddy! Our fore-fathers envisioned and intended our economy to be based on a free market and the rule of Caveat Emptor (Buyer Beware) should dictate.

    if you remember history, alcohol had the same problem with moonshiners. Alcohol existed without issue for thousands of years largely unregulated until a coalition of well intentioned people banded together after one bad batch too many, and called for government regulation. This kicked off reams of legislation and created a lot of government jobs (ATF, etc) all at the cost of taxpayer expense AND our personal liberties.

    So what’s the answer? Simply exercise your consumer responsibility of reasonable diligence and don’t rely on anyone else to do it for you!

    Does your Incense Manufacturer of choice have a reputable market presence? Can you email your incense supplier with questions? Also, ask your supplier if he buys direct from the manufacturer, or if he uses a middleman. If he doesn’t have a direct relationship with the manufacturer OR doesn’t know, I would suggest you pass.

    Your s in Liberty and Personal Responsibility.

    • hi. i just have one question and u being a representative of the insense industry might possibly be able to answer it.. how is K2 supposed to be used?. i mean its not for human consumption so whats the right way to burn it??? i mean do u put it in an insense burning dish and if so how do u keep it lit? because like conventional insense sticks it doesnt stay lit. i thought maybe ur not supposed to actually SMOKE it but rather burn it like insense and just kinda smell the smoke and cathch a funny feeling or 2. not actually inhale it like its a blunt or something. Thanx

    • Dear Sir or Miss,
      You should be banned from posting this info. Your product is a fake chemical product that you are very aware of kids are smoking. Why do you sell it as in insense?? and say don’t consume it, It should be apparent by these post that everybody who buys it is smoking it. If you only want them to use it as insense then why does it come in a little bag that looks exactly like weed and not in a normal compressed insense stick? Because you and your company are in it for profit and do not care one bit about the health of your customers. You compare it to alcohol ? you are an idiot. You are selling poison legally and you will be held accoutable by God and if I have my say by the law. I will do everything I CAN TO TO STOP YOU AND PUT YOU LYING IDIOTS IN JAIL… PLUS THE FACT THAT YOU HAVE COMMENTED ON THESE POST AND ARE AWARE THAT PEOPLE ARE SMOKING IT AND REFUSE TO CHANGE THE PRODUCT IS PROOF YOU ARE NOTHING BUT A SELFISH MONEY HUNGRY CORPORATION WITH NO REGARD FOR THE POISON YOU ARE SELLING TO KIDS.. YOU ARE GUILTY AND i HOPE YOU ARE SHUT DOWN. yOU ARE A JOKE .!!!!!

  19. I would just like to put my experiences with this product out there. I have been using Marijuana for many many years now although this product Is similar to the effects of weed it is not the same. People need to understand that like any substance (caffeine, food, alcohol,…..) If abused or mis understood/misused can have adverse potentially life threatening side effects. Always know what you are doing and use in moderation or it can be harmful
    in some way..Duh! rather than try to make every substance on the planet Illegal and put Innocent Americans in jail because the government cant respect peoples privacy (that is supposed to be protected by our Constitution)that is wrong. Some day if we continue this way we could be put in jail for coffee or a hamburger, why not they can kill you. Basically what I’m saying is if you don’t know what you are doing dont use this product and if you do the research use caution. The truth is that this substance if properly used can have the same Positive medicinal benefits of Medical Marijuana. I personally think that this has the potential of being a better option than Marijuana for many reasons. One, it is cheaper(compared to the balloned value of Marijuana). second, there are different types of this substance that effect the body/mind in different ways due to the selective affinity to the cannabinoid receptors depending on the chemical. which means it could have many medicinal values. Third, to get the desired effect you dont have to smoke it. It can be effectivly and safely broken down into liquid form using grain alcohol (95%/v edible corn alcohol), and applied to food or your favorite drink. You just need to calculate the mixture to be able to understand the dosage. IE: 1g added to 100ml or 3.39 ounces of grain alcohol = 10mg/ml. Smoking this substance is effective but not recomended, due to the fact that you are changing the chemical composition and possibly introducing unwanted chemicals and carcinogens. not to mention is much harder to get an accurate dose due to the fact that it is active smoked at only .5mg and to accurately measure that size of dose you need a super expensive scale. cheap scales are not the way to go due to accuracy in small doses. When taking orally an effective dose of 018 is around 10mg but is imperative to dilute in grain alcohol (using other solvent can pose a danger including rubbing alcohol DANGEROUS!)Grain alcohol is the same as potent vodka, edible but use responsibly. And just add to a drink or food like you would hash or Marijuana extracts, It takes more than smoking but has less side effects. Smoked dose equals 1-4mg “good luck measuring that” or Orally dose equals 10-20mg diluted in alcohol 1g+100ml=10mg/ml so the dose should be measured at 1-2ml. You can get a ml measuring dropper usually from any pharmacy for free or very cheap just ask the pharmacist. That is the safest way to effectively use and measure this substance safely with no known side effects different than Marijuana IE: red eyes, munchies, short term memory, and possible anxiety. Everyone needs to understand that its not the substance that is harmful, Its the person using it. just like a gun. not everyone should have one due to mental problems, stupidity, or lack of knowledge. becaus you may harm yourself or others. But educated sane people should be allowed if they know what they are doing. I agree that like Marijuana, alcohol, cigg’s…… should be regulated in some sense to keep out of reach of children and young adults who are immature and don’t know what they are doing. but to others should be a right. how is this substance or Marijuana different or more harmful than Alcohol? other than the fact that more than likely you wont loose control and beat up your wife or children like you may on alcohol. To me its a little bit of an oxymoron to say that alcohol is safe but this or marijuana isn’t and people should go to jail for having it. That is just stupid propaganda made by stupid people, and supported by stupid people. Basically, this is a human rights problem no different than slavery or segregation. IE: you can become a prisoner for possession and forced to be locked up against your will. you must pass a drug test to be able to get most jobs, yet anyone who abuses alcohol is fine and those who take prescription drugs (even if that drug is similar in effects or worse physically addictive) those are ok, no matter the side effects(some deadly). Yet these are highly discriminated against. It makes sense to me “NOT”. But i guess we as a society will never be perfect. Anyone who believes that is not only stupid but a hypocrite. Lets free America again. Back to our original values. Stop turning innocent Americans into criminals. Stop privatizing prisons/jails, definitely don’t let judges benefit financially from convictions or owning a stake in a private jail. Free all Americans who are jailed for cannabinoid substances (jwh,Marijuana).”FREE AMERICA!”

    • I am a 21/m/ny lookin for….just kidding. I am 21, and I have smoked a ton of weed. Leading up to my first k2 experience I did not know what to expect. A friend brought it over to a friend’s apartment and we sparked a J. Two of us never had any of this King Krypto yet, and the other two were already high on it. I took 3-4 hits from the j and right away I felt more high than I had been in months. I liked it at first, and then the panic started setting in. My friend, who was also a first timer (and heavy marijuana smoker), would not get up from the couch. My hands began to sweat profusely and were extremely cold. I was stuck in a chair, so scared that I did not want to move a single muscle. When I did move, I could feel my heart beating violently, and I swear to God I was so scared that I could not speak. The other two friends sat and laughed while the two of us routinely said to each other “dude, I don’t think this is supposed to make me feel like this, I am freaking out.” A bit later my friend went to take a shower to try and get rid of the high, and moments after the shower went on I could hear him puking his guts out into the toilet. One of the other symptoms I distinctly remember was a constant stinging in my left hand, on the tips of my fingers, and then my heart rate would rise again. I swore I would never smoke that stuff again.

    • Yes. I agree! People just need to think for themselves and not rely on others to tell them what they can find out for themselves. Since, we are all entitled to our own opinons, we should have the right to make some of our own right? Knowledge is power!

    • AMEN !!! finally … Please run for office and educate the people on the hill!!.. . Oh, thats if they are out of rehab for alcohol abuse.. Well put my friend.. ;) What happened to peace and love…

  20. ok ive tried this 3 times. the 1st time was fine, the 2nd time i was having slight tremors but i didn’t think much of it, the 3rd time (being last night) was HORRIBLE. i passed out twice, falling into my boyfriend (thankfully). he was able to bring me back to consciousness. the walls looked like they were melting, everything went black, i couldnt focus on anything, id daze out and stare at the floor. i could barely walk, could barely talk, became extremely paranoid. when i did speak all i would say is “make it stop make it stop im dying im dying”. i started to feel aggressive (he’s also felt aggressive & argumentative). i finally started pacing and paced for 2.5 hours straight, no joke. i saw shadows, kept wringing my hands, and thought something in the house was going to kill me and wouldnt walk in certain areas of the house.

    it was horrible. i’d advise everyone STAY AWAY from it, no matter how many times you’ve done it. it just takes once.

    • b- how long did this last you? I smoked this stuff last night & had a terrible experience, i felt like my heart was going to explode & I was shaking, couldn’t control my movements, I could feel the blood going through my veins, and I thought the high was never going to end. I woke up today still feeling really weird & it has lasted all day but has definitely calmed down a bit, but my vision still feels funny, I feel like I can’t think totally straight, and I still feel very jittery. It has now been 24 hours since I smoked…and I only took two hits. Please, please tell me all of the symptoms stopped for you, I’m really nervous about it.

      • bro um yea i smoked it last wensday and was really messed up my 2 time so i went to bed wendsday night it stayed with me a week after i smoked it dont do it again you had a serious reaction like me it could mess u up for life

  21. I think the key here is the difference between raw, pure chemicals, and adulterated herbs. the synth can herbs are dangerous to consume due to their inprecise nature- ingredients unknown, doses of ingredients also unknown. all the negative reports seem to involve overdose due to flippant ingestion of unkown doses of unknown chems. most, if not all,of these synthetic cannabinoids have very little if any long term documented negative effects. yeah ods suck but they suck a lot less than an alcohol or aspirin od and seemingly never result in death. these deaths are most likely from other drugs or contaminants imo.

  22. Quotes say that she “may have used it”, but the title says that it WAS associated with death. Sounds like a one sided opinion making false claims again. And someone said she was on pain meds? My neighbor said one of his relatives died from Ambien and pain meds – NO K2 involved. Nobody trying to make Lortab or Ambien illegal either. I smoke more than an ounce of this stuff a month. Stronger than the K2 brand even. It’s harmless. Millions of people have been smoking it for years (but not as long as marijuana). Where’s the death??? At least be honest. People who don’t use want it banned because it makes you feel better, not because it’s an “unknown substance” that we know nothing about and because it causes death. And to the post that incorrectly stated that it causes “irregular heartbeat”, it should be increased heart rate. The rhythm is unchanged. No Cardiac dysrhythmia, no ectopy. If another drug is being used at the time, DON’T BLAME IT ON K2. This one sided, half true “news” (and I’m being generous) irritates the hell out of me.

    • I some it everyday.I use 3 grams every 2 days and never had a problem with it. Alcohol causes death they haven’t banned that.Im 39 years old and have smoked pot for over 20 years but since k2 is here i havent’t bought pot for a year now. They just need to control the selling to 21 yrs and older.I have not been had a side effect or anything else wrong with me since I’ve been smoking k2 for a year now.

      • It is obvious that ANYONE who tries this shit the first time NEEDS TO BE CAUTIOUS, and take it very slow the first time…. DUH! As this is a different synthetic chemical and you DON’T KNOW how it will affect YOU! It doesn’t take but a little COMMON SENSE that this is no different than any other drug that anyone(usually)has tried for the first time! You didn’t slam the hell out of those either the first time, did you? If you did, and had a bad experience then you didn’t learn a damn thing! It’s called experimenting, so come on people! Why do you think your doctor tells you, even prescriptions, to take the low dosage first? So YOU can see how YOU react to the DRUG! Ok? So a word to the wise, and yes, you can do SOME of the availables and still have common sense. Moderation as the
        other person said. Then when you see what the effects are, adjust accordingly. Some people may not have any tolerance for some things at all… So dont be surprised if that happened too, it can. It is up to each person individually to make their own choice and say yes or no, then take responsibility for YOUR OWN CHOICE, DON’T BLAME YOUR DECISION ON SOMEONE ELSE! That he or she gave it to me shit, you chose! you could have said NO! Soryy but this is all true. End of this session here.

      • Normally I would agree with your statements on caution, but for these kind of chemicals it simply doesnt work. I was cautious, smoking very little at a time and even trying some under my tounge. I posted my experiences in other posts, but the nutshell version is every time I tried it even in very small doses my heart would race to 140bpm and my blood pressure would shoot up to 170/120 when normally its 140/90 (i have high bp). So basically my advice to anyone is simply dont do this stuff, it will KILL YOU EVENTUALLY!

    • Good intellegent insite.
      The whole thing is based on fear of the “unknown”,
      Kids are telling each other while the are doing deadly, illicite drugs like smack ectasy and meth..if you get caught being high or “too high”..just blame it on k-2..its legal so your not in trouble.
      of course if its er they will discover the other drugs and alchol in your body ..but it still goes down as another K-2 “reported incident in the records.
      Next;
      It’s driving law enforcement nuts..they can’t as a matter of practicallity test for it with only one testing center charging a fortune.
      The parole and probation officers are mad as hell!
      They can’t have paroles and the like, getting legally high whenever hey chose!! (tee-hee)

      Finally its about the money thar can always be levied against it! its always the money.

      • YES,YES,YES!!! I forgot to mention that… It ALWAYS HAS BEEN ABOUT THE MONEY!!! PERIOD… THEY DONT GIVE A SHIT ABOUT WHO DIES OR ALMOST DIES AND HAS TO LIVE WITH BRAIN DAMAGE, (DOES HAPPEN) FOR THE REST OF THEIR LIVES, IT’S THE MONEY!!! IF THEY KNEW FOR A FACT THEY COULD CONTROL ALL THE REVENUE OFF OF ANY DRUG SALES, THEY WOULD NOT CARE WHAT DRUGS ANYONE DONE!!! THAT’S RIGHT… YOU HEARD ME… BUT BECAUSE THEY CANNOT DO THAT, EVER, KEEP TRACK OF EVERYONE WHO WOULD MANUFACTURE ANY AND EVERY KIND OF DRUG POSSIBLE, THEY WILL NOT MAKE IT LEGAL! GET IT? YOU CANNOT HIDE AN ALCOHOL PLANT THAT SELLS MILLIONS OF BEERS PER DAY, SO THEY KNOW WHERE IT IS AND WHO IS RESPONSIBLE FOR PAYING “TAXES” ON THE MONEY, BUT YOU CAN HIDE SMALLER DENS OF CRACK AND METH, EVEN POT PLANTS IN THE BASEMENT, SO EVEN IF THEY MADE IT LEGAL NOT ONE WOULD ABIDE BY THIS LAW, SO THEY WOULD NOT GET “THEIR SHARE OF THE MONEY” SO THEY WILL NEVER MAKE THIS SHIT LEGAL, POSSIBLE THOUGH WITH POT. i COULD SEE THAT, MAYBE SOON, TOO. THE PRICE WILL DROP DOWN IF THIS HAPPENS, THOUGH, I WOULD THINK. THAT WOULD BE THERIR WAY OF NOT MAKING IT WORTH ANYONE BREAKING THE LAW TO GROW IT PRIVATELY, BECAUSE THEY WOULD ONCE AGAIN IMPOSE FINES FAR BEYOND WHAT THE ILLEGAL GROWER COULD AFFORD. BET ON THAT, TOO. iF ANYONE AGREES WITH SOME OR ANY OF MY FORUMS, OR NOT, PLEASE FEEL FREE TO ENTER YOUR SAY, THIS IS AMERICA AND I STILL BELIEVE WE SHOULD ALWAYS AND FOREVER HAVE A CHOICE, NOT FOR SOMEONE ELSE, BUT OURSELVES AS ADULTS. CHILDREN ARE AN OBVIOUS RESPONSIBILITY, SO PARENTS TRY TO RAISE THEM, BUT ONCE AGAIN THE LAW HAS STEPPED IN AND MADE DECISIONS FOR US. YOU CANNOT DICSIPLINE YOUR CHILDREN FOR USING DRUGS EVEN IF THEY ARE BREAKING YOUR RULES AND THE LAW IN YOUR OWN HOUSE. SO, IF YOU THINK YOU ARE FREE IN THIS COUNTRY, THINK AGAIN. YOU ARE FREE AS LONG AS YOU DO WHAT YOU ARE TOLD. END OF THIS SESSION. THANKS FOR LETTING ME SAY MY PIECE, AND READING THIS IF TOU DID. GOD BLESS EVERYONE.

    • Sometimes I think posts like yours comes from re-sellers. You can shove it. What’s the longest amount of time someone has used these products? I feel in my joints, my heart, my brain, other drugs affect these area’s also but not in this severity. I ccould see this having an unnatural effect on maturing adults. I feel this is a serious subject and should be spoken of in a matter of sincerity.

  23. Well if they legalize Marijuana, none of this crap would have to be made and distributed. Its amazing how we can go to bar or package store to get alcohol, which is a substance that affects the mind and body in far worse ways than pot, but we cant roll a joint and relax. Government has their head up their butts, and need to take a look at the facts as well as reality. Ill trade pot for alcohol or cigarettes any day!

    • I have just returned from dropping my son off at the hospital. Hullucinating, paranoid, seeing “colors”, feeling of extreme anxiety and a thankfully failed attempt at suicide. I knew he had tried Spice but thought nothing of it.
      I have smoked pot for 35 years. I believe in our dispensaries here in California and trust the product that is sold to me does not contain cemicals which are unknown.
      My concern, after much reading on this subject is that if your children mention that they are getting high legally using products such as Spice or Silvia LISTEN up. Educate them on the concerns and look at this as a warning sign that they may need treatment.
      I have never seen or experienced signs or symptoms such as my son is having today. My son graduated with top honors last June. He was ready to enter College this fall but was sidetracked by the side effects of this drug. Use of it has left him mentally disabled and unable to concentrate. I have brought him to the hospital several times in the last few months. No docter has taken this matter seriously. If you could see my son today you would not think it was the same person.
      Yes, I understand that dosage, strain and added cemicals contribute to the effects my son is experiening. Parents and friends please listen up if you see changes. This is an issue if it is abused. I believe that people who want to get high will use any method possible. so the supply and demand theory goes. Educate those who wish to continue using.

      • I am so sorry to hear about your son. Your letter was heartrending and effective in making the argument to educate the public. Prohibiting or criminalizing instead of explaining the effects of these emerging drugs will prove dangerous to the public and ultimately ineffective. You said

        “I believe that people who want to get high will use any method possible. so the supply and demand theory goes. Educate those who wish to continue using.”

        A thoughtful and accurate statement.

        My best wishes for your son’s recovery.

        G

  24. JUST F*CKING LEGALIZE IT!!!! This is absurd.
    Alcohol KILLS PEOPLE and it’s open for recreational use. Amphetamines KILL PEOPLE and they are okay for medicinal use. Heroin KILLS PEOPLE and it’s okay for medicinal use. Even cigarettes and coffee are arguably more dangerous than marijuana. I am SO tired of this crap! I say: “Stoners Of The World Unite!”
    If everyone who smokes were to collaborate and pick one time on one day when we would all head to our Governor’s mansions or what have you, and then light up at the same time; there simply would not be enough bacon on hand to stop everyone — and if they did try to stop it with arrests, the court systems would be immediately crippled by the sudden gigantic immovable clog of millions of petty pot cases. If nobody in power wants to face this problem, then lets shove it in their face and make them deal with it. We outnumber them. let’s act like it.

    –”Freedom is never voluntarily given by the oppressor; it must be demanded by the oppressed.”
    –”Human salvation lies in the hands of the creatively maladjusted.”

  25. i been smoking k2 and other products similar for the past year. i get high off of it but not as high as i do with regular marijuana i feel that people who say all this shit about it should try it its not as bad as they say.

  26. Pingback: Citizens Commission on Human Rights of Florida (CCHR Florida) » Blog Archive » FDA Bans Psychiatry’s Research Drug and Other Fake Pot Products

  27. I tried this stuff yesterday after being pressured by my husband. I ended up in the ER, I died twice. I was having serious hallucinations it was a horrific experience. I took two hits, the affect was almost instant. This shit should be illegal.

    • Two hits? Are you serious? What other drugs has he pressured you to take that would make you end up in a hospital? So you always do what your husband says? Even if you dont want to in regards to your health? I think that is the real problem here. Also I am having a very hard time believing your being truthful. The cases that are ending up in hospitals are usually some teenager who I really suspect was not being careful. The media of course doesnt give any details on amount consumed or strength of blend, etc etc. Always slanted towards drug control. Anyway, if you really ARE telling the truth, I think you must have taken some GIGANTIC hits then or you just got really unlucky and just happen to hit a hot spot in your blend.

    • I also took two hits, the second about 15 min. after the first. The first hit was small because the taste was so harsh. The effects where like a mild marijuana high. For my second hit I took a deep one and held it.

      Minutes later the effects became very intense, and I passed out for 20 minutes. The effect built up after I came to, The feeling and visions I saw were extremely unpleasant, actually frightening and horrible.
      The synthetic cannabinoids in these product are intensely potent, and their effects on the human body are not known at this time by science.

      Do not, I repeat, do not smoke this junk. It is being manufactured in China and I expect they are looking into it’s use as a chemical weapon.

      • its not being used as a chemical weapon thats the most retarted shit ive ever heard its been used for the same effects or close to the same effects that marijuwana would give you and if your not a pot smoker then no wonder the effects were harsh and frightining i can assure you if a small quantity off it is smoked at a time you will be fine, because all it takes is about 3 or 4 hits of mystery machine madder hadder

  28. There are a few things that we need to keep in mind about using K2/Spice.

    First of all, the production of synthetic cannabis (K2/Spice) is not regulated. This being the case it is very hard to get a clear picture on the effects because you are rarely comparing apples to apples. There are many different mixtures (different varieties of synthetic cannabis) as well as potencies, not to mention the overall quality of the product. So you can’t take the word of any one person regarding the effects unless they are able to tell you exactly what they used and at what quantity. Even then there are many, many counterfeit products out there which muddle the situation even more.

    Secondly, in my own personal experience and in the experience of many people I know, dosage of K2/Spice has been shown to be extremely important. Unlike regular weed, K2/Spice is much less forgiving to those who use too much. If the highest potency product is smoked, a normal, single hit can and will put a first time user in a world of hurt. Imagine what can happen when an individual smokes an entire bowl themselves (for the uninitiated an “entire bowl” is generally 3+ hits depending on the size of your pipe and how full you pack it.) It would be like chugging a large amount of hard liquor. Similarly smoking an entire joint is a very, very bad idea. And if the user is already on other drug(s) the potential for complication abounds.

    Lastly, virtually no studies have been done on the side effects of K2/Spice. No one really knows what the long term and lasting effects of continually smoking K2/Spice will do. Who even knows what the effects of smoking the plants that K2/Spice is sprayed on will do? And most of this stuff comes from China where I’d be surprised if there was any regulation on the production at all.

    Bottom line, if you must smoke something, just get yourself some regular weed. And if for some reason (probation, parole, job) you feel you must smoke K2/Spice, be very careful! Start out with only a tiny hit and give it some time to take effect before you smoke more. You may regret it highly if you don’t.

    • im all about some regular bud i smoke alot of kind buds 25 a g lime green sweedish cheebah , and i smoked a 3 gram blunt in a xl whiteowl rello before school of sythentics its called madder hadder mystery machine probably the highest quality spices out there and its no were near the effects of chugging or even sippin on some liquor of any kind , just figured id through that out there also

  29. Pingback: Who decides what’s an analog(ue) of a controlled substance? | Terra Sigillata

  30. I have read through these posts. Someone who isnt me used the K2 Standard product three times now. First time two hits he got very high but no real issues. Second time smoked three hits about the same. Third time smoked four hits and took some ibuprofen for back pain and then drank some alcohol with a SMIDGEN of pure JWH-018. Not a good idea. While the effects did not go out of control, he was up for several hours with increased heart rate and panic. After hearing his experience I think maybe just smoking two to three hits is enough at any given time. These people reporting really bad experiences are probably just not using it right. It is three to five times stronger than conventional THC. You cannot smoke it the same way as regular pot. If you do your just being ignorant. People that say it is the same strength or not as strong are just deluding or lying to themselves. Also the coroner that examined the body of the woman that ‘died’ from K2 Spice reported that it had NOTHING to do with her death, it was related to a soup mix of other drugs she was on. K2 perhaps tipped the cart so to speak but according to the coroner it was their opinion that K2 did not contribute in any way. Of course the media refuses to report it. Just google MiddleTown Woman Death Not Related to Spice to get the article.

    • Well said. Unfortunately, “temperance” is not associated with getting high in the younger set. The facts in emerging drugs being used ought to be spoken about frankly in the schools and in the media. “Just Say No” never did work, despite the hype.

  31. You cant control s substance, it controls you! People can say yer using it wrong, or using too much, or using it in conjunction with something else and thats why your experiance was bad…what the hell ever! It doesnt matter whether you take one hit or five or ten, that dont mean jack! This stuff is bad news and it needs to be pulled off the market, at least marijuana (even if it is illegal) is all natural.

  32. It doesn’t matter what good or bad has come from synth because now it can only get worse.
    Prohibition, which does not work, has just started for the synthetic cannabinoids and now this chemical marvel will be handed directly over to the FDA and PHARMA. Crooks and criminals that should be hung for treason. You betrayed your oath! WAKE UP AMERICA!

      • This video is complete and utter horse manure. This drug has more effects that COFFEE does. dotn try to play like its something just like coffee. This drug puts people in hospitals. anywhere from temporary to long term. You can not say something about a drug even you dont know about. every batch is different, every batch has different doses and ingredients, but lucky for you since its not to be a consumed product you dont have to, by law, label your products ingredients. this drug causes mania and phychosis. stop hurting the world just becuase you are money hungry. you are destroying the children.

  33. A Middletown woman’s death was not caused by synthetic marijuana, despite widespread media accounts and subsequent efforts by local and state government officials to ban the widely available products referred to as Spice or K2.

    “It is not the cause of death,” Madison County Coroner Ned Dunnichay said Tuesday after receiving toxicology results from the autopsy of Lilly Helsley, 29, of Middletown.

    Dunnichay said Helsley died from an accidental overdose he termed “mixed drug intoxication.” He classified the drugs found in her system that were responsible for her death as prescription depressants.

    Helsley died at Saint John’s Medical Center on July 30, and people who knew her said her death occurred after she smoked Spice.

    Some Indianapolis media accounts were quick to point to the products as culprits in Helsley’s death. One headline on an Indianapolis television website reads: “Mother dies after smoking Spice.”

    “I just wish they would have waited and gotten the final cause of death from our office before they speculated,” Dunnichay said

    …come on now folks….let’s not make more of the situation than needs be.

    • Before I get started, just let me say that I have tryed/used many drugs in my younger days, almost all to be honest. I’ve been smoking marijuana for over 15 years, AND I HAVE NEVER HAD SUCH AN EXPERIENCE IN MY LIFE

      I started smoking a form of Spice/K2 called Dynasty and Judgement Day about a year ago. I had moved far from home and lived in an area where marijuana wasn’t available like it was at home. A local headshop had introduced me to it and everything seemed fine at first. Then came the scariest night of my life!! After only two hits I went to lay down and watch some TV. After a few minutes I noticed my heart beating extremely fast, I had to focus on breathing, as if I had to force myself to breathe. I started sweating bullets, although I was ice cold. Then I started to shake from head to toe. Then it got much much worse.

      The back of my head was in extreme pain, it felt as if my brain was swelling and was about to explode. I started to lose my vision, I began to experience tunnel vision. Seconds later I began to lose my hearing.

      I was home all alone, with no phone, and I thought this was it. This is what it feels like to die. I was convinced I was dying. I grabbed my girlfriends engagement ring (I was in the process of proposing to her) and tryed to get as comfortable as possible.
      I layed back down in our bed and I was sure this is how she would find me the following morning, dead with the ring in hand.

      Lucky for me I didn’t, but I did ask for her hand in marriage the next morning. I have never looked at life the same since.

      To this day I still get that uncomfortable feeling in the back of my head from time to time, and scares the heck out of me. The long term affects are unknown and Im afraid Im might learn the hard way

  34. I’m sorry to hear of the bad experiences on this post, but this is a free market and the buyer has to beware. My general question is, Did anyone reporting negative experiences do their homework on the products they selected?

    The truth is that all Herbal Incense is NOT created equal and there is a lot of junk product on the market now. You can read more about this here: A Word about the New “Incense Hysteria”, Bad Incense Press and Government Regulation.

    http://libertyherb.com/word-about-new-incense-hysteria-bad-incense-press-and-government-regulation

  35. Ladies and Gentlemen, allow me to address all that have responded to this thread,and quite frankly. There is no need to address how the synthetic cannabinoids work in the chemical sense. As strange as this may sound, it’s true that that particular idea is completely irrelevant. THIS is the ONLY fact that can come from this situation – EVERYONE reacts completely differently to any given substance, and as is with LSD, there are substances that give a different experience EACH TIME it is ingested. Like death and taxes, one thing is absolutely inevitable…there are people who have adverse reactions to certain substances, ranging from peanuts to complexly-substituted research chemicals (spelling or grammar for complexly?). This is something that entirely depends on a person’s body and brain chemistry. I don’t have exact figures (although I’m sure if one searches the net they can find those figures), but if I had it, I would wager a billion dollars that more people die each year from peanut allergies than do from synthetic drugs. All this extraneous research is ridiculous, expensive, and at times costs the lives of innocent animals. We all question the morality of testing on humans, but the reality of this situation is that there are a plethora of people who would readily volunteer for psychoactive research, especially in the area of metabolite toxicity. I have gladly considered myself a guinea pig at times. The point is, there isn’t any such thing as a safe drug. This even goes for aspirin. There is always a risk. Know your mind, know your body, know your substance, and know your source. Ladies and Gentlemen, we need to be responsible with anything that can affect our performance in any way. Start with the smallest possible dosages, wait for an acceptable amount of time before redosing, and PLEASE, ladies and gentleman, RESEARCH any chemical or drug you are planning on taking. These are guidelines that save minds and lives. I has spoken.

  36. David…

    http://heraldbulletin.com/local/x87453383/Middletown-woman-s-death-not-from-Spice

    Fox news is NOT a reliable source of information. I’ve been smoking K2 and even stronger blends about 1.5g everyday for the past 7 months. When I quit, I feel a bit sluggish and feign for 3-4 days. After the very short withdrawal period I feel fresh as a daisy.

    Will they ever publish my findings?? Only if I die. So no, they’ll never get published.

  37. After smoking k2/spice for about 3 months, my brother is now under 24/7 supervision and unwillingly staying in a hospital because he is experiencing extreme phychosis and mania, not to mention memorie loss, confusion, anger. we have no idea how he will heal or if he ever will. he is a danger to himself and others. my brother is a whole different person now because of this drug. we have no idea now how his life will turn out. he is currently taking anti-phychotic medication and sleeping medication because he has not slept in 3 weeks. just because you have been smoking k2/spice for weeks, months, or even a year, dont think that it is okay, beucase every batch is different, every does is different, and little research has been done on the product, but what they have found, is that there is a new chemical or drug in these batches, some have even been identified as PCP. you are not going to know what you are consumning because this product is not intended for consumption… therefore, these comanys do not have to put the full list of ingredients on the packaging. I am going to do everything in my power to make sure this ‘incence’ is banned world wide. i will do anything to keep it away from people, i will spread my word as much as i can to protect people from this. nobody deserves to experiance what my brother is going through, and what its doing to me, and my family. this is the most devistating thing i have ever experianced in my life, watching my brother fade away into a phychotic, manic person. please help me fight this product and help people to understand. just go smoke a bowl of bud, marijuana instead. its your life on the line people.

    • I am sorry for your brother, I really am. I dont this a ‘ban’ is going to help, there are other drugs out there people take MUCH worse than this that are both legal and illegal. 250k people die per year from bad drug interactions with LEGALLY PRESCRIBED DRUGS. Your brother is still alive you should be thankful. Your statement of ‘just smoke MJ’ is stupid. You dont think drug dealers put bad stuff in MJ? You think it is somehow better? I dont totally disagree with your statement that we dont know what is in the incense and I agree that if some of these people making this stuff are putting PCP in it that is certainly BAD. Regulation might be a better solution but that has its downsides too.

      You are NOT going to get people to stop taking drugs, the best you can do is to make sure your loved ones are educated and try like hell to make sure THEY dont take it. You obviously care about your brother, I hope he eventually recovers. It does not sound like it was the JWH blend that did this to him though, I suspect he was taking some other drug along with it that did this.

      • All I have to say is some of these sound like the first time I toked. I my self smoked it years ago and thought the real thing was better. Who puts stuff in weed? That’s stupid no one does that people who have the weed do it on thier own. That is beside the point.
        If your 16yr old is ding this stuff, you should know.
        I waited til I lived on my own before I did any drug.
        Do you know why? My parants watched what I did and they would have killed me before a drug did. I have done every drug known to man, and some you have never heard of. I shot up heroin for years til I saw what it did to me. After that i went to my mom at 29 for help. My friends were not so lucky as more than I would like to mention died. Heroin, coke, real weed are just as easy to get. There are a ton of so called bath salts and plant food that they can’t test for. How do you know they didn’t take them? The reaction sounds the same as with those drugs. Someone said this already, some people react differant than others.You see I quit herion cold with no medical help. My friends tried and died. What I,m trying to say is I miss those people and loved them,but they were just not built to use drugs. Not everybody was built to use drugs. So keep it of tv cause that’s how more people find out about it. Just look the sales of bath salts and plant food went up after it ran on every news station every half hour. This stuff was so much safer when it was only known by a select group. In ten years only five deaths that were stupid kids that should have never had them. As for the rest of us we learned all we could and had scales the wieghed in mg.Those days are now over, because well I’m too old and the government stepped in when a couple of high school and collage kids just licked powder off thier finger and died. Just think before you do anything,cause anything can happen when we try to hide what things really are just to make a buck.
        I’m sorry to anyone who lost loved ones to so called research chemicals.

    • Listen, this is just a story to make critics spark a column about in their paper and shut out us “stoners” you sober heads call us. but the fact of the matter is is that if it did that in 3 months..what the hell happened in the first month? his symptoms should have shown the first couple of weeks that should have knocked him in the head as a warning to maybe STOP because the substance is not for all people. if you’re a straight up smoker. DO IT. who gives a damn. but if you’re a new smoker to this type of inhalant, it’s advised that you don’t do it. yeah it causes halucinations but the fact that you “give it a shot” and it’s your first time smoking shouts STUPIDITY.
      -Will

  38. I have been reading these posts for a project that I’m doing to attain my Master’s Degree for Nurse Practitioning. I’m proud to say I have never smoked or injested Marijuana and in turn have not used synthetic marijuana. That being said, I do not understanding the need for people to smoke or injest chemicals, natural or not, into their bodies. Exercise, eating right and getting enough sleep seem to be a good combination for good health and mental well being and I don’t remember mind altering chemicals being added to that list.
    I’m happy to inform you that I am very competent at my job, and you can trust that I won’t be high or drunk on the job while caring for you and your family. You will get the best, safest care possible due to government legislation that is put into place to protect you from harm in my hospital.
    And if you are using any type of drug or mind altering substance, please stay home and don’t get behind the wheel. I don’t want an altered mind on the road endangering my family. Being respectful and caring for each other’s well being should be our top priority’s as humans. Just my thoughts. Thank you for listening.

    • Well, Bernice, you’re clearly an ignorant, insensitive person. Had you done even the most minor research into addiction and the people who suffer from it, you would KNOW why people smoke and ingest chemicals. It’s generally because they’ve suffered some kind of trauma in their lives, and their emotional state is too much for them too handle while sober. Seeing how you’re a nurse, you really ought to be better educated on medical problems, like addiction.

  39. Has anyone noticed every one here keeps talking about these diff blends. Are they name brand k2, or something diff? Don’t blame the jwh for someone putting pcp in your shit. The first time I smoked it was k2 brand summit. It was intense and took away my short term memory, caused euphoria, and in my opinion took away depth perception causing everything to be 3d, but amplified like watching a movie. The down caused slight paranoia, but it passed. Your increases in heart rate are caused from something added, as jwh actually slows the heart rate according to ACTUAL research. So sick th the jwh only k2 brand and stop screwing around with what the dot head says is the newest stuff.

  40. I’m no chemist, hell not even close. Yet I can share my experience. I know whoever decides to read this will have their mind set but really think about what your doing. I had switched from marijuana to k2 when I heard of it about a year ago. I was excited 15$ for 3 grams. Idk what everyone else is paying but that’s around 10 bucks cheaper than an eighth of mids. I figured hey I can pass a drug screen, and save some money. It started off fine it got me high at first. Then not so much it started taking more. Then I noticed I as different more aggressive, more easily agitated my chest would hurt with each breath. So I started researching it. K2 does the exact opposite of pot. It jacks up ur blood pressure, increases heart beat, it effects your brain like heroin,opening up more receptors for the jwh compounds. I know this will be read without a second thought but k2, k3, spice, kush, w/e its like doing acid its all fun and games till that one bad trip. Reality is a bitch and she slaps hard. I quit k2 around the end of December 2010. till this day I still have headaches because of it. Also I now have an irregular heart beat. ( Couldn’t spell palipitations). A few last words check the ingredients on your bag of k2 summit. Not there? Well shouldn’t that tell you something about it then? The stuffs not regulated otherwise it would have 2 things one a legitimate ingredients listing. 2. a set age limit to by (states vary) I know everyone’s scared of the unknown and its pot prohibition all over. Well its not. There was no smear campaign, there was no Reagan’s wife. There was however an influx hospital visits around the us linked to k2.”Bad batch” or not you may as well be playing russian roulette when you smoke spice.

    • I hear ya, I had similar experiences and while at first I was for this stuff I have now changed my tune. If your heart beat is still messed up I would suggest consuming lots of fruit with potassium, that is the one chemical that can give you a chance to re-regulate your heart beat. Bannanas, dates, oranges, etc. I have been doing that after my experiences and it has really helped. I was very careful about my doses too only taking a little at a time but it was useless, my heart rate would rise rapidly for several minutes and my blood pressure would spike for several hours. This stuff can and will kill you if consumption is continued. Im done!

  41. well I’ve been smoking it for a while And I’ve notice certain batches give me really bad head pains and my veins are all puffy and I can feel the blood pumping threw my veins BUT I’m not saying they should ban it I still enjoy smoking it and it’s are fault if somthing happens. on every pack it says not for human consumption so u can’t complain because u diddnt follow the rules

  42. To me this is the best reason in the world to legalize marijuana. People are going to get high one way or another if they want to, and nothing is going to stop them. The government does not constitutionally have the right to tell us what we can do to our bodies. It is called the right to privacy under the fourth amendment of the constitution. If everyone who smoked pot would just throw every seed they ever have out in the dirt somewhere, everywhere, there would be more weed growing than they could ever get rid of.
    Here is a challenge to our government (who tries to say they have our best interests at heart when they make these substances illegal.) Why not just legalize marijuana which cannot hurt you no matter how much you smoke or eat. It is physically impossible to eat or smoke enough to kill you. So if it is really true that they are looking out for our welfare, then they should legalize this benign and beneficial herb. And as far as that goes, my teenage kid could go buy a bottle of potentially fatal aspirin, and nobody would say a word. Wake up America, the government doesn’t care about you or your kids, they are only concerned about making money, and they don’t know how to regulate something that comes from a seed. They are making too much from it being illegal.
    You know that white powder that comes from a plant, and it is addictive as hell, and people have a hard time quitting using it, even when their doctor tells them to stop using it or it will kill them? It is called sugar. And if you are a diabetic, it can kill you. That was my first “gateway” drug. The only dangerous thing about marijuana is that you can be arrested for having it. That is why whenever I find any, I burn it.

  43. Hey there,

    Just wanted to give some “educated feedback” on this K2 from a personal experience which I consider highly dangerous. I’m also a pre-med student at Vanderbilt and have had about 9 years of experience with cannabis and other drugs. After having smoked K2 for about 5 days at a moderate level (i.e. I could actually function), one night I took a particularly strong hit which I remember crackled for a bit longer than others (this is important to point out for pharmacological reasons: was it the resin crackling, the amount of drug, a different compound, etc.) After this happened, my heart rate spiked as it would during a panic attack. I then lost all touch with reality, and fell on my bed. My heart was racing, and then I lost the ability to move. I repeat: I WAS UNABLE TO MOVE. My physiological symptoms were so extraordinary that I thought I was going to die.

    I thank God for my life today (and a fast metabolism rate for JWH-018). All the K2 was thrown out immediately.

    This stuff is not a safe alternative!

    Cheers.

    • I can report having similar experiences.

      This synthetic stuff tends to jack my heart rate up to unnaturally high levels to the point where I think it is going to give out. It also causes extreme palpitations.

      I have difficulty moving, standing and feel like I’m going to faint, but I don’t think that’s to be unexpected when a chemical has forced my heart rate to 190bpm for 45 minutes straight.

      I guess you could call it a panic attack, but no amount of controlled breathing, relaxed feeling seems to stop it. It only stops once the chemical is out of my system.

      • No it was NOT a panic attack. While I never experienced that high of a heart rate (THANK GOD!!!) I too even in VERY small doses experienced my heart rate rise, sometimes up to 140bpm for 10min or more (yes I measured it). This is the main reason I quit this stuff, I dont want to die out of stupidity. The very last time I did it I could only think of my kids and my wife and ask myself “Why am I being so stupid!?!?!” Its not worth getting high for this kind of risk.

  44. the government doesn’t want to have anything compete with alcohol which generates billions in to the economy. Funeral homes, hospitals, lawyers, car shops and dealers, courts and fines, the drug war, rhab centers, taxes…..billions. 500,000 die each from alcohol and cigarettes, about 5,000 die from drugs. does it make sense? only to our government.

  45. The title of this article is blatantly misleading to everyone. If one were to glance at the title without reading it they would think she really died because she smoked “spice”. Here’s an idea: until the toxicology reports are officially released to the public, don’t try to stir up panic simply because you THINK that your stance on the subject is the right one. I smoke this kind of stuff every single day and have been doing so for over a year. I have no health problems and I’m obviously not dead. I even get high before I play in my local softball league (and I’m still a beast). Some people just like to get high and it’s futile to attempt to prevent them from doing so as they will ALWAYS find ways around the system. Hahaha!!!! We “stoners” have a few bright ones amongst us ;)

    • Silly you, you’re very uneducated if you call yourself a stoner. I enjoy cannabis on occasion, but as a nursing student I can guarantee you’re not actually getting stoned off these synthetic products. The chemicals do not contain Carbon or Hydrogen which is required for something to be considered ORGANIC. Marijuana is ORGANIC, and gets you baked, like stoners. Lawn Mower Dihydrogen Fuel does get you stoned, it kills you. Also, softball is weak, basketball is a much better sport, luckily I kept my cardio because I don’t smoke spice. LOL good job killing yourself.

  46. I am currently laying in a hospital bed in the mental ward I have been here since Tuesday night it is now Thursday night. I have had k2 alot in the past 2 months, and this time I felt as tho it was my last night on earth I thought inwas going to die I tried the shower and a cold one at that I have had suicidal thoughts and I was so scared. As everyone else is saying i thought it was safe because it was legal, well your wrong I did my homework and looked it up and they were saying it was fine. I thought I was going to die the other night I wa sweating even tho it was cold that night and everything looked sketched my thoughts took over and I had no control of them. It was Like I was jumping in and out of reality and occasionally it still happens I’m am afraid I’m going to be stuck like this for the rest of my life please people just because your not having these affects doesn’t mean it won’t happen to u eventually take our advice I would not wish this feeling on anyone not even my worst enemy’s. My advice is stop before it’s too late

  47. this shit makes u endure a stronger mental high and confusion. ive tried it plenty of times and found out smoking for a long period of time (throughout the entire day) will enhance the risk of vomitting and migranes. dont smoke large doses of K2 bc it will have a different affect that weed gives off by making u paranoid and just plain fuckin stupid. i would just stick wit smoking weed as it is safer for ur body and there isnt toxins in it that ppl just dont know too much about. the world is stupid making something that is perfectly fine in attempt to make a synthetic version of it. legalize weed for cryin out loud instead of making shit thats legal which is more harmful to u.

  48. While vacationing in Florida, my girlfriend and I were on the balcony of our hotel relaxing after a long day at the beach. She was drinking beer and I was watching her bummed out because I don’t drink, and couldn’t catch a buzz as I was out of smoke do to my ill planning. Low and behold moments later I caught a whiff of what smelled like weed coming from the balcony next to ours. We held some beers around the wall in a friend request offering. They happily accepted and invited us over to hang out.
    The people were nice, and rolled a fresh blunt upon our arrival. The whole time telling me I am not going to believe the high from this smoke. He was so right. Moments after just three tokes, I grabbed my girlfriends hand and squeezed it tight. She asked me if I was ok and all I could say was no, I have never been so high in my life. I frantically left for our room and she soon followed. I scared her to death as I was scared shitless. I could feel my heart beating at a ridiculous pace, and could not control my breathing. All I could do was sit on the bed chanting I’m gonna die. I’m going to have a heart attack and die. Tell my children I love them I’m leaving this room in a body bag. The room was spinning and then tremendous paranoia kicked in. I jumped up and locked the doors and freaked out telling my girlfriend there is no way that shit I smoked is legal. A while later I went to the bathroom and started vomiting profusely. Returning to the bed I held my tight and wad afraid to fall asleep because I didn’t think I would wake up.
    If thinking about trying this stuff heed my warning. Be very careful. Honestly in my own opinion I would rather have the consequence of buying real pot and getting caught with it over trying that shit again. Our government just needs to legalize pot already before more innocent people get more then they bargained for smoking the synthetic crap.

    • Yesterday, I smoked K2 for the first time. A friend of a friend brought some K2 to the studio I was in. We’ll call him “Eric”. Now keep in mind, I haven’t smoked weed in 2 months due to probation restrictions. When offered the K2 by Eric I was very skeptical and I had alot of questions. “Have you done any research on this stuff? How long have you been smoking it? And most importantly, will it show up in my system? He answered all of my questions and he also asked me a few questions: Are you physically fit? Do you have a strong mindstate? Are you ready?? Not taking any of this into consideration, he passed me a bowl packed with the spice and told me to try it. I only smoked it because I was curious and I’ve wanted to get high ever since I quit smoking weed 2 months prior. I was in the studio at the time, and I went next door into the “smoking room” and took a huge hit of the bowl. Exhaled and took 3 more tokes. I instantly thought “Aww man this ain’t shit!” I walked into the next room and everyone’s looking at me and they asked “How do you feel?”, “Are you high?”. I responded, “Oh, I’m good, it’s not that bad”. I instantly felt a buzz which was acceptable. My engineer asked me if I was ready to record and I told him “Yes, let’s do it!” When I reached for the headphones to place over my ears and looked into that room I instantly started tripping. God knows the feeling I had right there at that moment was like anything i’ve ever experienced in my life. I wasn’t high I was fucked up!! I’ve never taken acid, bars, ecstasy, or any other drug besides alcohol and marijuana in my entire life. I was soo trashed that I wasn’t able to think. The song I was preparing to record became a blank memory in my head. After 2 attempts of trying to record I gave up. I went into the “Room A” where my engineer records and announced that I couldn’t record the song. That right there is when my high was elevated beyond belief and I was officially trippin!! My heart was beating soo fast I thought I was going to have a heart attack. I couldn’t speak, I couldn’t move, I couldn’t stand or walk. Everybody in the room started panicking as I staggered to the chair and literally lost my footing. They sat me down in the chair and kept asking me “Are you okay?”. I responded over and over again no. I thought to myself Am I going to die?? Is it my time to go? The room was spinning, My heart rate was doing about 1000 beats per minute. I was in a state of shock. If it wasn’t for my engineer, I couldv’e died. If he didn’t keep my calm with kind words that everything was okay I knew for sure I was going to die. I knew I was going to die most definitely. After drinking 2 bottles of water and finally regained somewhat of a state of conciousness I threw up. I was so happy to get that poison out of my system. The high lasted for at least 6 hours. That was the worst and most terrible high i’ve ever encountered. I will never smoke K2 again. I suggest that if you do decide to smoke K2. Do some research on the spice. I will never, ever, smoke that stuff again and I advise you don’t either without proper research. Thank God i’m hear today.

      • It did not last 6 hours, that is not even possible, nor did your heart beat “1,000 times a minute” and you were never in any danger of dying from smoking it. You smoked too much and had a bad anxiety attack. The fast heartbeat was simply tachycardia which is a rapid heartbeat like you get from running, it’s essentially harmless in most people. You are one big drama queen who took too much of a drug. “almost died my ass” lol!

  49. I’ve been a bud smoker for 15 and have NEVER in my life experienced anything like I did last night after smoking some K7 Kush. I’ve tried the K2 on about four different occasions with no ill side effects. Well last night I hit the K7 a couple times and I immediately started to feel higher than I ever have felt in all my years of smoking. We have smoked some pretty high grades. I was watching the TV and it started looking 3D I thought it was just because I was tired and I have 52in. HD so I turned the TV off and went to lay down. When I stood up I felt very weird like I was in a movie or something. Got upstairs and my heart started racing so fast I thought I was gonna have a heart attack or my heart would explode. Then I started to feel out of control like out of my mind. Then the nausea kicked in and I started hallucinating. I was so freaking scared I just keep praying to God please save me I’m going to die. I finally threw up and was able to calm myself enough to lay down. Woke up this morning still feeling detached and suffering from a mild headache all day. I will NEVER smoke that crap ever again. I’m scared to smoke real weed now. My husband had no ill effects that night but low and behold the next day on his lunch break he had the same exact episode. Thank God we’re doing better and didn’t have to go to the hospital. I pray I feel back to normal. I wouldn’t recommended anyone smoke this. Not saying everyone will have the same experience but why risk it.

  50. hello everyone, i just read every one of your comments and have this too say.
    I am 17 years old and smoked k2 daily for about 8 months with nothing terrible other then anxiety and increased heart rate. BUT i stopped smoking the k2 and 1 week later I wake up feeling like i couldnt breathe I tell everyone about this feeling and 2 days later end up in the E.R. they tell me im breathing fine diagnose me with bronchidis, next day E.R. again unable to breathe still. This time its diagnosed as a panic attack. Long story short been to the E.R. 4 times telling them i cant breathe they tell me im breathing great they even take blood and do a chest scan. K 2 has done something to my brain as it is now been 8 days and still feel this way, I am on xanax now because i kept showing up at the E.R. But my advice to the every day k2 smokers when and IF you stop be prepared to go through HELL Wish you all good luck and and i hope someone is there to hold your hand through bc i feel that would make this experience less terrifying. PEACE

  51. @ MATT and Everybody else

    i think you are amazing Matt. I have use spice for about 2 years now. i have also experimented a couple time AZ, GA, Cali and i have been to the hospital once for a major case of dehydration, but the thing about spice is that its all about , how long you ‘ve smoked the potency and the way you smoke it, and you’ll be fine. I think spice is a wonderful thing to have as long as you are not a first time smoker trying to smoke a large amount. If you are going to try it or if you do smoke it then barely take a hit and see i promise you will def be able to judge if you have had enough.

    if its you rfirst time take a small hit to get use to it because thats how you tell if you can handle it. you dont go to the bar after never drinking in your life and get the biggest beverage you can find and chug, because you will die.

  52. Yeah, K2 man, I remember that. It was really popular amongst the pot heads in school. They were just trippin about how it didn’t show up in drug tests which happened randomly throughout the school year. I didn’t really care of getting caught because I don’t do sports nor I do any sort of club.
    So you know it got passed on to the group of people I hung out with, they said yeah it’s cheap and it gets you real fucking high. And I was like really? (Like a gullible S.O.B)
    So I chipped in, we got two bags and I wasn’t so sure at first, I read the back and there was a warning sign, of course I was the smarter pothead and asked my friends is this even safe?
    Of course me being the nice guy and some-what of a pussy they just said “Dude, quit being a bitch, it’ll be fine man”
    So I did, it was the Blue Package, and I got High as fuck. I don’t smoke during the weekdays because I lived with my friend during that time, his mom was a total religious bitch that looked down upon people who smoke pot… ._.
    So the first Weekend, It was awesome, but It felt weird you know, It wasn’t the same, it tasted terrible too, that taste would stay in your mouth for a while, a taste you wouldn’t forget…
    Second weekend, we gathered more people and told them about this K2 stuff they’re like word lets smoke, so they pulled out the bongs and we smoked and had a few beers, It was a fun night just like the nights when we smoked weed. But another thing I’ve noticed during the night It was hard to move my body, Usually we get high and smoke ciggarrettes down the street on our longboard. But that day we just sat around, we had trouble breathing and I kept on dazing in and out. I would hear my friends voice as he was telling his epic stories during college. I saw my firned he was on the floor twitching, I was laughing it off are you okay man? He just still kept on twitching and started freaking out. Now once he started freaking out, it was a chain reaction, we all started freaking about because we couldnt breathe properly, we just ran in the house to sober up, we ate this kids whole fridge up just to get rid of it. So I kinda learned what the consiquences were, and from the looks of it alot of people on here had the same reaction.
    So anyways the last time I took it, I was at my house, my brother there playing video games and my mom in the living room watching tv and her daughter. So I go in the bathroom because I still had a few k2 left and I smoked some. (This was my first time by myself) Now I live in a house hold where they dont know that I smoke and once I got out of the bathroom It hit me hard, I was freaking out, my heart rate sped up and I started getting dizzy. I went into my room and saw my brother playing video games, I opened the door as if someone broke in the house, he looked at me weird and I just layed in bed. I thought I was going to die, it was the worst feeling seeing my brother infront of me not knowing what was going on, I literally thought it was the end and shed a tear and closed my eyes just so I could just sleep it off. I woke up a few hours later and got som\e food in my system. I was completely fine after that. But that had to be the scariest moment of my life.
    I would just say for those who still want to try it to take few little hits, and maybe grab a few friends.

  53. I enjoy smoking pot, not just for the way I feel on it (wonderful) but I also have type 1 diabetes, and studies have shown that it can have some benefit in preventing my from losing my vision, or a limb, which is why I think its absolutely absurd that Mary is illegal. That said, lack of availability and fear of finding new contact (do to Mary being illegal) has led me to trying 2 different kinds of herbal incense. I don’t know if its allowed to mention names so I wont. The first time I tried Herbal Incense (K2 is a brand so referring to all Herbal Incense as K2 is dumb imo) It was a free sample that came with some salvia I ordered over the web (about 2 years back). I was sceptical that a legal smoke could get me a Mary like high, but me and a buddy hit a bowl while outside grilling, and were very pleasantly surprised. I liked it so much I ordered it a few more times with the same good experiences. Oh and I forgot to mention that it was sent to me in a simple dime bag in the mail with its name written in sharpie on the bag, no company logo or nothing. The last time I ordered this product, Me, my bro in law and nephew (18 at the time) each bonged a big bowl each. Shortly after my brother finished he went outside of the shed, but didnt say nothing, so I thought nothing of it. Next my nephew, finished his bowl and passed it to me. I noticed by the time I was done mine, my nephew who was sitting on the freezer had remained so still for so long, that the entire cigarette he was smoking was one big curled ash in his hands, and hadent brokeen off or been smoked. Now I was SUPER HIGH, like my cacy pants glowing neon green high, but I loved it. I soon realized he didnt, and had to guide him over to the swing set to sit down, then stand up, sit down…to keep him lucid. I still remember him looking at me with the look of fear on his face and saying “Al, I’m too high”. This was made even worse when he saw my brother had went outside to puke. The experience for me was great, similar to me smoking some awesome grade weed for the first time, but I believe this was a bad batch. I dont believe my brother was puking do to the Herbal Incense, he had a blood infection, and had already thrown up earlier that day. I just recently decided to try a new Herbal Incense since then, and now all the JWH stuff has been banned, so again I was skeptical if this stuff would work. Thankfully it does, and is almost parallel to a Mary high, no bad effects, and very enjoyable experience. IMO, if you want to try this or MAry, if you are worried before trying, or are subject to paranoia, dont do it. I had a freak out the first time I smoked Mary, and felt my heart racing and thought I was gonna die, and my sister calmed me down and told me it was all in my head, then I was able to calm myself down and enjoy it, and have enjoyed it ever since. Only time I freak out now is when I smoke Mary, and hear a siren, it may be barely able to be heard, but to me it sounds like they are on there way to get me, lol. there is obvious risks in Herbal Incense, mainly do to not knowing what the hells in it, especially fro one brand to another, but weed is illegal, and this gets the job done. If weed is legal, I will probably never touch herbal incense again, but sadly it is, and as much as it needs to be made legal, and how much it helps people, or could make/save the country tons of money, I don’t see that happening anytime soon, so for now I’ll smoke my potpourri, lol.

  54. okay people, im 33 years old and have been smoking 14 grams of pot every week since i was 20. trying to go legit with drug screening i decided to try some herbal incense from my local head shop. first time i tried some called the truth, i was high within 2 minutes of smoking, it lasted about 20 minutes.so i thought to myself this stuff is really good. so i go back to the head shop and i buy a blend called 7H, cheaper than what i bought earlier. i packed my small bowl and took 2 hits. i was not high i was fucked out of my mind. after 15 minutes of being a basket case,when i came down,i flushed the remainder 7h and went on too bust every glass pipe i had in the house. get off this shit before you are a zombie

  55. Completely unrelated to the discussion above, I just wanted to put my two cents in.

    I’ve been researching K2 ever since smoking it last night with a friend. She told me it was a legal alternative to weed, and I decided to try it. I don’t doubt that this drug caused the death of a woman. I felt sick to my stomach, my heart was pounding and racing, it felt like adrenaline was continually being released in my body. I was hallucinating, and it felt like an out of body experience. It was NOTHING like being high from weed. I suggest that none of you try this K2 business, as it seems as dangerous as any narcotic could be. It disgusted me that I tried it and I’m praying that it doesn’t have any longterm effects. I’m angered that K2 is LEGAL even though I’m positive that K2 is dangerous, while weed is calming and safe.

    Moral of this story-
    DON’T TRY K2.

    • I had posted about 6 months ago about people ‘being stupid’ and not being informed about how to smoke this stuff. I still think many people having problems with spice are just smoking way too much at once. You cannot take a dose like real weed. JWH-18 is 5 times stronger than THC and AM2201 is reported to be even stronger than that. The doses must be lower than normal weed.
      That being said, I have recently decided to quit smoking this crap. I tried K2 blends for a bit and had great luck until I got stupid one night, smoked too much and for about an hour I walked around feeling very paranoid and began to think I was two inches tall. I had to call my brother just to calm down and hear another voice. I threw 60 bucks worth of spice that night. I tried another sample blend called XXX and even though I smoked very little of it again it gave me what I would best describe as the creeps, I didnt like it. I then tried another blend called Tai High. This stuff was GREAT. It was almost like real weed. I could smoke a whole one or two bowls no problem and felt fine. I bought another bag and dosed at the same level as I did on the first bag, filled a bowl about 3/4 of the way and pulled in a big ass toke.
      BIG MISTAKE. I felt a weird sensation in my brain like a hole was forming, like my head was starting to expand. I then felt my heart race real hard. I decided to take my blood pressure (I already had high bp @ 140/90 typically) with my machine and it wouldn’t even register. I was trying to figure out why it wouldnt work but gave up. I took my beats per minute, it was basically around 140. This lasted for about 15 minutes until my heart finally went back down to 100bpm. I thought this was just a fluke, the last batch i had was much better than this. Next session I greatly reduced my dose (using a one hitter) and it was OK but still had the high heart rate and couldn’t measure my blood pressure on my machine. At this point I began to get concerned. I then bought a manual version blood pressure monitor with a stethoscope. The next time I smoked (2 very small hits @ 4 seconds each) I went to my easy chair and listened to my heart. It was racing very very fast. I measured again at 140bpm. I took my blood pressure and it was around 185/110. This lasted for about 2 hours, the bpm eventually went down but the blood pressure went down rather slowly. The last experiment (and it was STUPID to even try again!) I did it by putting some under my tounge. Thank god I put a very small amount! After about 15 min my blood pressure went up to around 175/120 and stayed that way most of the night. It was HELL! I measured my bpm on and off over the first hour and one time it shot up to 145 and then went back down and about 20 min later went back up again. When my bpm finally did go down to normal levels I still could listen and literally feel how hard my heart was working. My blood pressure never went below 160/100. I am a bit older (43) and I have to say I began to wonder if I had finally done it, given myself a heart attack.

      In the end everything turned out fine. I did some serious exercise a week later on a tread mill as a sort of self administered stress test and found that my heart can take it. However, smoking like this is simply is NOT WORTH IT!!! I have heard with real weed specifically the indica variety that although your heart will race due to your blood vessels dilating, it will actually lower your blood pressure in the end. Not this stuff! I do not know why the 2nd batch was like this, but this just goes to show that you really don’t know what your going to get when you buy and consume this stuff. I officially reverse my position on this stuff, I cannot recommend it to anyone, even younger people that have good hearts. I would venture to say that some people using this stuff WILL eventually end up dead.

  56. So I just smoked some of this stuff in fact ive smokef about three bowls out of this little two hitter I have. Im not freakin out or anything but I just looked in the mirror at my eyes cause they are bothering me. My eyes are blood red and its not just tge white part my eyelids are blood red underneath as well. I now have blurred vision and my eyes are sensitive ti the touch. I want ti know if anyone else has had this experince and are u alright now

  57. me n mu husbnd r recovering addicts n we hav realy had bad cum downs frm evry kind of spice(chills diarehea,painful cramping,n the feeling of dope fiend. i was hallucinating n cryn fr 4hours, wer dun w this stuff we wud smoke a bag evry hour,,,this shyt is bad,

  58. I tried the K2 a few times and it never did anything for me or to me… no high and no side effects, other than an occassional head-ache. I’m sorry for those who have been negatively effected by this K2… on the other hand I’m questioning something else. In most of the statements regarding K2 I see this JWH-018… Ok so If that could be or is the reason that K2 was bad for some ppl. What about this product my boyfriends been getting at our near by gas station. It’s call “Flight Risk” and the back specifically says in the center of the package… NO JWH-018, NO JWH-073, NO JWH-200, NO-CP-47,497 and NO cannabicycohexanol…. He hasn’t had any bad trips and neither have I the few times I’ve tried it… Just thought I’d throw that out there in case anyone was thinking like me…. I guess it’s like anything else for anyone else… EVERYONES different. Body structure and type, amount use. We can over do anything… Remember we can die from drinking too much water…

    • Mariapeach The poison I had said it had none of those products in it. I posted my near death experience already. NO INSENSE IS GOOD!!!! PERIOD IT IS NOT GOD’S NATURAL WEED FROM NATURE…ALL SPICE IS MAN MADE POISON “THE DEVILS WEED” IT CAN KILL YOU!!!! AND OUR GOVERNMENT ALLOWS IT TO BE SOLD AND OUTLAWS REAL WEED….They are all accountable to God, and Heads will roll!!!!

  59. This is just hysterical. There is more evidence linking “Fracking Fluids” to fatalities. Yet it’s perfectly legal to pump it into our drinking water.

  60. My son killed himself on Sunday 6 Nov 2011. He was taking very large amounts of Spice and was addicted. The alteration of his mental state definitely contributed to his Suicide. People fail to see the spiritual side and how evil forces attach to drugs and use them as a medium to provoke such thoughts and behavior. My son was very successful and not someone you think would be prone to suicide. There is no doubt in my mind he would still be alive today if he had not been involved with the use and eventual addiction to Spice.

  61. Pingback: Smoking Chemicals: A Sober Look at The Synthetic Marijuana Fad | DELIRIUM TREMONS

  62. Just wanted to share. I’ve been smoking liberty herbal for a while now, and I like it okay. It’s mild and pleasant, just the way I like it. Not too strong. I like to enjoy while working. In other words, it’s something I can use and still be productive. I don’t like to be too inebriated to the point of just being lazy and spaced out. The only side effect I dislike is getting the munchies, but that’s another topic for another forum. Anyway, once I ran out while on the road and stopped into a smoke shop. They didn’t carry Liberty so I asked them what they would recommend. They gave me something called Everest and I said fine and left with it. Later I casually took about two small puffs – again, I don’t like to go crazy, just like to relax a little — and within minutes I was in HELL. Now, let me just add that I I experimented with lots of drugs in college: LSD, opium, alcohol, cocaine, salvia, hash… This was far, far worse than anything I’ve every experienced. It was like being poisoned. That’s all I kept thinking. I thought, “Well, I’ve od’d and i’ve been poisoned and I’m going to die if I don’t get help.” I was terrified beyond words. I felt incredibly sick, could barely move, and I felt like I was going to have a psychotic break. Then my heart started pounding and I had chest pains the likes of which I’ve never felt before. I thought I would surely have a heart attack. I wasn’ just high; I physically and spiritually felt that I was dying. I also kept thinking for some reason that I had been poisoned with formaldehyde. Now, I know nothing about formaldehyde; it’s just what kept running through my mind. Later I read online that a lot of herbal incense blends use formaldehyde, so I wonder if psychically I knew, but anyway… It took an enourmous effort to walk down one flight of stairs and to the phone. Without hesitation I called for an ambulance. then I started vomiting violently and I thought about how maybe this was how Brittany Murphy felt when she passed. I prayed to God and vowed never to do something so stupid again if I lived. It was the worst I have felt in my entire life. During that ordeal, I just kept thinking about how sobriety is really a gift and prayed I would sober up and live through what I had done to myself. It was pure terror and darkness and vileness. In summary, I went to the hospital and eventually the effects wore off and I was fine. I believe the stories that some people died from using some brands of HI; I think it could have happened to me. Now I will only use Liberty and will not touch any other brand. You couldn’t pay me to. I know Liberty brand also believes that these other herbals on the market should be legal, but I disagree. Shit is dangerous. Really, really, dangerous and people have no idea what they’re getting themselves into when they haphazardly walk into a store and just pick out some random packet of HI. I initially started buying Liberty because I once asked a guy working in a shop to recommend something very mild and he gave me the sweet blend to try. Plus I liked the packaging so I gave it a go. In my opinion, I’d rather be using mj, but Liberty is a good alternative, and using any other brand is a real crapshoot. It may work out okay, it may be the worst day of your life. Also, I think Liberty makes stronger blends for people who want something more intense. I for one appreciate that they make something mild that I can pretty much use anytime, anywhere. There, those are my two cents. Happy trails,

  63. Also, if I sound like an ad for Liberty or like I’m affiliated with them, it’s not my intention to do so. I just appreciate their wares after having nearly died using some other garbage that shouldn’t even exist on earth. I do wish that they would list their ingredients and set themselves apart from the herbal incense category. I mean, why can’t this stuff be sold just like a regular herbal smoking blend? Then I wouldn’t be embarrassed when my friends as what I’m using and I have to tell them I don’t actually know what’s in it and suffer the ridicule as a result. Admitedly, it’s foolish to use something when you don’t know what’s in it and I certainly have difficultly advocating something when I don’t know what’s in it, BUT I’ve never had any negative experiences as a result of using it. I think they’d attract more customers if they listed the ingredients, less sketchy and would inspire more confidence in the quality and integrity of the product, instead of keeping their blend a total mystery.

  64. Pingback: 6 Terrifying Reasons You Shouldn’t Smoke Synthetic Weed | Chib

  65. I smoked this last year and I swear I almost died as well.
    Seriously, this fake weed needs to be made illegal, EVERYWHERE, and legalise safe alternatives such as… well, REAL WEED!
    I’ve done weed, in much larger quantities before and never ended up with anything more that an upset tummy. Spice on the other hand, less than one shared joint among friends resulted in all of us either passing out in the middle of the road, vomiting, hysterical fits, and in my case; a trip to the hospital due to racing heart, inability to swallow/worst dry mouth of my life, inability to speak, shock, dehydration, the list goes on.

  66. And there’s the trouble with chemicals. The more you make them synthetically, the more pure they are – and substituting any old cannibinoid (or in this case, a cannibinoid mimic?) for THC leads to the same problems as substituting methanol for ethanol. They’re not the same compound JUST because they’re in the same family, which plenty of people tragically don’t understand…

    I personally used neither real or synthetic weed, but let’s just say I, with my limited organic chem knowledge, know enough about the subject to know that it’s probably FAR safer to just smoke regular ol’ Mary Jane. Is this gonna become an epidemic? Oh probably not. But if this compound, MPPP, has about the same effects as THC with none of the benefits and a ton of complications, it’s probably gonna drop out of use eventually. Would you rather smoke a joint with relatively few consequences except maybe legal ones, or smoke fake weed and then potentially die? I know which I’d choose.

  67. My husband started smoking spice because it was legal. At first there were no noticeable side effects. He and his friend would smoke it together all the time. Then he started getting headaches, and his temper really started to flare. He was having mood swings so bad, and he has after ten years started hitting me. His friend has gotten to the point where when he smokes the spice he vomits, and his temper also flares. In the past month my husband has become very sick with a respiratory infection. He is in constant pain, and has finally quit smoking the spice. I feel afraid it has done permanent damage. In my personal opinion spice also effect logical thought. When smoking it even after several days he seemed like a man who had under went a lobotomy. Before my husband smoked marijuana he was nothing like this. He was relaxed, and he still had his brain.

  68. This stuff is not for minors not for human consumtion so basically you can sell whatever the Heck you want and people will buy it. But it is misused by people and they get too messed up. I smoke this stuff daily. I’m fine as a human being working daily. Am I not allowed to enjoy my life when it’s there for me? People will smoke this shyt and be dumb with it and smoke too much. This stuff really messes u up. Some can be chill some can be relaxing some others will trip you out. And STOP CALLING IT K-2!!! K-2 is a goddam brand like mr nice guy. People get up online and think they know what the fuck they are talking about when they don’t know anything about this shit. Leave the people that want to descreetly have their time and fun. STOP FUCKING BEING STUPID BEFORE YOU DUMBASS PEOPLE RUIN IT FOR ALL OF US

  69. All the drug bans do is perpetuate a billion dollar industry that continues to provide the underground market with more potent, more readily available, and more dangerous drugs created by the manufacturers out of necessity. It also provides the federal government a scapegoat for crime trends while funneling billions of taxpayer dollars into a War that is effectively turning our streets much more dangerous than would be expected. However the drug trade is less of a crime syndication than it is simply an unregulated, underground market that generates tens of billions of dollars in tax-free profits.

    The K2 manufacturers are simply providing a service to people who demand a particular experience. We could provide this service at the state level, regulate it, and profit from it while improving safety and quality measures. Now, with K2 banned, it is simply giving the lab guys incentives to synthesize that next 20x more potent chemical that’s going to give a brain seizure to a baby somewhere in the Midwest.

    That’s what happens when you’ve ambushed the meth dealer, closed down the marijuana dispensary, and imprisoned the teenager who smoked a joint in a parking lot. Have the Feds really “cured” anyone? Smokers will smoke. Just because one out of fifty million dealers goes to jail, means a larger market share for the ones who are too smart to get caught! In effect, this means that each dealer taken off the streets literally makes the resultant environment much less stable and much less secure. It leaves a horrific environment of dealers who can’t deal, users who can’t use, and it also takes away one extremely dependable source of revenue. With less money, less product, and less personnel, this forces drastic measures such as theft, robbery, prostitution, gang activity, etc. I am disgusted with the federal government as they can easily entrap any common dub bag salesman under the guise of “one less criminal on the streets” but they really do not understand the long term implications in any way or shape.

  70. i cant blaze trees no more cuz of drug tests and after goin 4 months of no smokin i rolled up a fat blunt of this K2 shit and got abolutlely retarded. i think its true its similar or more strong to high grade cannibus and believe overdose could be possible. usually with regular cannibus u reach somewhat of a peak during the night when u smoke whether its 5 hits or 35. but this shit just like knocked me out. i was drinking and taking xanax also but thats besides the point i used to always do that

  71. I love smoking spice smoking spice it is the best way to medicate besides using medical marijuana..i don’t know what you’re smoking.. but I’d take a bong tokes everyday of that stuff.. you’re not supposed to eat it!! Ive never had any problems with it ive smoked ten grams of it myself in one day and still alive..

  72. This is no joke ! i am 17 years old & I smoked k2 pineapple with some friends and i died. I saw demons and I felt like killin people. i literally felt like I was in hell. I was dreaming about random things and a billion things wer rushing through my head sooo fast. My friends were scared,they said my eyes rolled back and I turned evil. I couldnt hear anything they were saying to me or feel anything they were dooing to me. Theres so much more I could say about this scary experience. Just dont smoke it.

  73. So I have read most of the posts on here and thought I would share my experiences…

    I first tried “spice before jhw-018 became illegal… Great stuff, had spike, colorado, k2, and various others. Had no adverse reactions other than from Spike Diamond (which is mentioned in one of the older posts). if you smoked more than a small hit or two it would give you a high that saw as similar to salvia (I do not know for sure other than watching youtube videos as I have never tried salvia)… then it became illegal.. everything disappeared for a while and then came back..everything was really weak at first then better stuff started popping up..

    Now the norm is for the headshop owners to mkae their own and sell it.. I think you will find that the majority of headshops are doing it except for maybe the chain stores like starship..

    So now I have tried many variations over the years wit no problems except for the spike diamond (whish was great in very low doses).. I recently tried some stuff made by a local headshop owner.. it was fantastic in single doses but anything over that…holy shit… luckily I have had experience with LSD and shrooms (of various names) and know how to control a high to some extent.. this was not like acid or pot or anyting I have had before.. I was soooooooo fucked up, had a hard time walking, luckily didn’t need to talk.. I sat on the couch concetrationg as hard as I could.. drank some water and finally regained my composure.. I have no clue on the long term effects.. but on the short term if you don’t be careful it will bite…. of course kids don’t do drugs like we used to.. hell my first hit of acid I spit out because I was afraid.. now days everyone wants to piss farther..

  74. Wow your own article that you linked to stated that she was a user and they did not link it to the death that they were looking further into it… I dont even smoke it… your high on something

  75. Spice is not for human consumption. Untill yesterday I’d never heard of the stuff. Now I know it all too well. Yesterday my son was sent to the emergency room after taking “a big hit” of spice. He blacked out, fell forward hitting his head on the table. As his friends tried to help him he opened his eyes and started thrashing around and, screaming at the top of his lungs, then he started rolling around on the floor and throwing up. He is ok now but he has no memory of any of that happening. If u are using this stuff, please stop. Info on the websites ive checked says that it causes psychosis & heart problems. Just buy the real stuff or you may end up in the ED next. I want this stuff Off the market because now I worry that he may have done some real damage to his brain.

    • Thanks for your input. I too am a mom of a 20 yr old son who used spice for over a year. His using has set him back quite a bit. He has been in a mental rehab unit for 7 months now. Still hallucinating and delusional but getting better with the help of some powerful medications.
      Some people will continue to try to get high at any cost. I believe education is the best way to help. They finally outlawed the spice product in CA but as history always repeats itself something new will surface and in the coming future we will be battling that substance. Sad but true. Educate those who are looking for an escape to the real world.

  76. Well David U……I think you might be onto something. I work in a Psychiatric Intensive Care Unit and have seen (especially young) people come in with symtoms of psychosis. Often they are COMPLETELY non-verbal for a good 24 hours after admission. They end up being misdiagnosed as schizophrenic or with schizoaffective disorder. Treatment for these are antipsychotic drugs that perhaps this individual doesn’t need. Then, you have the antipsychotic drugs on top of the K2 Spice the individual usually comtinues to use. Sounds like a blast to me……

  77. Your article is absolute bull****! The Indiana death was unrelated to spice use and the linked article you cite even states at the time that they were simply investigating the possibility of a link. Another widely cited article cites a boy dying from smoking synthetic weed actually died from smoking it through a children’s Pez dispenser and coating his lungs with plastic. The herb itself did nothing to cause his death. Despite your nonsensical, convoluted and patently false statements, not one confirmed case of death from smoking synthetic marijuana exists, but why bother with the truth?

  78. Mary, That sounds a bit undiscerning. You have a very interesting job indeed. I honestly don’t know if k2 or kryptonite could cause such a reaction or whether or not it could be permanent. But if it does, I burned it constantly in my house as an incense and the company distributing the product may be liable.

  79. I tried this stuff last night. Thought it was supposed to be a synthetic marajuana with mild effects and short lived. I am 58 and rarely smoke (maybe every 3 years at most) but certainly experimented in my youth.
    This was most frightening and scary experience. I believe I went into some sort of seizure and stopped breathing. My spouse who perhaps did not smoke as much(I had 2 hits) was able to stay with reality and stimulate me enough to keep breathing. called 911. I still can’t talk about it yet and trying to piece it all together.

  80. I tried k2 last friday night for the first time an it was hell Iam still lucky to be alive the kind I had was callrd scooby snacks. I no longer smoke weed cuz of my job so my friend was telling me about it an said it wont show it u have a drug test so I agreed to buy some. we went back toher bfs gouse where they rolled it up an they let me take the first hit of it. I took 2hits and my vision started gettin blurry an every thing around me was moving. I knew at that moment somethinv wasn’t right. After that I don’t remember anything . I blacked out an hit my head on concrete. My mind felt like I was in another eorld an i was never comming out it felt like pure hell . I woke up an i felt so numb i didnt ever know i hit my head i was bleeding from hitting the ground so hard. my friends cleaned me up an said i had a cut but it seemed to be ok. so i sleeped it off an went to the hospital to get checked, the doctor said i was ok an i went home but i still didnt feel right. i went home an rested but it was like i was still hullosanating i was having bad nightmares and waking up in sweats. I know if i was to drive home that night i probley wouldnt be here right now this stuff is not ment for humans to smoke I rather smoke weed all day then smoke k2 ever again. It has really opened my eyes to see how lucky iam to still be alive today.

  81. My son just got out of the hospital today from smoking the new synthetic diablo he has lost his motor skills and and has a speach inpairement will he ever get better? He had a seisour and went to icu. I pray he gets better. He s 20 years old and an itt tech student will he be able to return to itt tech. This is what happens when you smoke diablo. Pray for his recovery please GOD. Signed David

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